should a custom frame/forks come with a headset ? your views ?

[NBC]

hi all

i'd like to see what the builders on here think about this >?

if you feel a frame should come with a headset, what kind of quality might one feel adequate ?

i'm not looking to a 1" vs 1 1/8" vs onepointfive argument, but do any builders feel that there will be future issues with the 1" standard in terms of supply of replacement headsets / stem shims etc ?

if you don't feel a frame should come with a headset, i'd really like to hear your views also

thanks

nathan

[Jonathan]

Since people ride bicycles, not frames, the goal should be to include as many or all of the parts that determine how well a bicycles rides. The headset is a starting point, not a stopping point. Spec the best. period.

[veryredbike]

I can tell you that shop mechanics don't worry too much about stack height most of the time when swapping headsets, etc. If you want it to be really precise, I'd include the headset.

[zetroc]

Like Jonathan said, if you decide to include headsets with frames, spec the best. You should specify up front that you include x brand of headset. Since people often have different preferences for color/model, and if you end up making frames with different headtube sizes, you may find this to be a more complicated undertaking requiring additional $ tied up in inventory.

[steve garro]

There are plenty of excellent 1" threaded headsets available.
I'll include any HS the client is willing to pay for, installed too.
- Garro.

[bencooper]

I understand the logic - that the frame was designed for a certain stack height so should come with a suitable headset. But the frame was also designed for a certain stem length, seatpost layback, wheel size, crank length and handlebar geometry, so should it come with them too? And isn't that what we normally call a complete bike?

[steve garro]

5psi +/- in your tires is more noticeable the 2mm +/- on headset stack.
- Garro.

[Will Neide]

I think they should all come with Cane Creek 110's and a Thomson stem and post.

:)

[ron l edmiston]

b'n a customer & a rider --- i like the handcrafted builder recommending and providing me the opportunity to continue with "why i smiled at his expertise" in the
infancy of our relationship.. even if i choose a different component/s set up relative to my subjective perception, i trust his guidance for my desired path of travel and access..
this individual is also in the profession of completing my total bike..

always has been tried and proven, with a smile from me -- (& i save $'s in the long run..)

ronnie

[Chauncey Matthews]

Stack height isnt a big deal, not enough variation to make a real difference when the bike is together. Pick a default measurement and build to that.
Including ( and of course charging for) an installed headset is a great thing for a builder's peace of mind... No worries about the customer or some bike shop employee making a mess of things with a bad install.

[pruckelshaus]

I've never sold a frame, but a $50 Tange or IRD with sealed cartridge bearings will keep your fork where it belongs and will get your customer on the road faster. A headset is one of those "I don't even want to have to think about it" parts atmo, where a properly installed and adjusted $25 part can perform just as long and just as well as a part that costs $100 more.

[Dave Anderson]

There are plenty of excellent 1" threaded headsets available.
I'll include any HS the client is willing to pay for, installed too.
- Garro.

+1

I used to include headsets with my framesets, but I do not anymore. I have found that most riders like what they like and not everyone likes the same thing. The fact is that there are a lot of good choices and so I, therefore, build to (and if asked, supply) what the customer wants to use. In the recent past, that's included Chris king, Cane Creek, Campagnolo, FSA, & Ritchey, all of which have quality headset models in their line ups. Of course I won't agree to use something that's not up to snuff, etc. With respect to 1", I don't think that there's any danger of the 1" headset going extinct.

But...as always, this is just my $.02 and to each his own, etc.

Dave

[WadePatton]

please try to buy a complete bicycle from your builder

(if he or she will let you.)

oh, and while you're at it, let the painter have as much free reign as you can possibly stand too.

In most cases you'll wind up with a better bicycle and more betterer paint than otherwise. relax and be rewarded.

[jon_norstog]

I get a bro deal from Cane Creek, so I use a lot of their headsets, and I pass on my savings to the client. The S3 is really good - I just got in a 5-year-old 26" BMX bike for a repaint, that had been used really hard. The S3 headset was in perfect condition. I was surprised, most light headsets are not really up to that kind of abuse. Cane Creek makes a really nice 1" threaded headset, too.

I use .035" aircraft grade tubing for the seat tubes on a lot of my bikes. They take a 29.8mm seatpost, which is a rare bird. luckily, Thomson makes one, and they too give me a bro deal. So I usually include a seatpost with those bikes.

So yeah, I usually sell the headset and seat post with a frame and fork.


jn

"Thursday"

[Zimmermanbicycle]

I always give the customer the option of buying (from me or otherwise) a headset of their choice and I will install it,so far most choose me to build their bikes,this is something I prefer for many reasons but I don't think I would ever need to "include" the cost of any component in the frame build price and I find most customers defer to me on headset choice so it is always easy,other components are always a lengthily discussion that tends to start before the frame is even on paper.
-Eric

[Amaro Bikes]

I see ths point it as the same as the whole frame situation. You can go "custom", you can go "mass production", you can go "this is my point of view", you can go... etc.

As I see all this framebuilding as the "this is my point of view" (wich obviously is just only that, a point of view) I'm not up to selling frames alone, as then they can be fitted "wrongly" by customers or shops. This is why I try to go for as complete bike as possible, and if not possible at least make sure customer will use the "right" setting. This involves many different questions, wich for me are:
-If I'm building a handmade frame because I trust in certain things, I can't see any consistency in then using ultra cheap or masive production components. Of course smetimes there's no choice, but most of the times there's very little to make the "right" choice. For example, in my case I try to use, whenever is possible and sensible, to use European produced (not just labeled) products. Also, products from other parts of the sea are welcome if they're built according to this point of view (let's say small companies with real care for what they do and full in house productions, etc). Well, it's a bit of mix of things and I can't probably explain it in an easy way, but for giving just an example related with the headset question: Why would I use a FSA headset on my frames if I can use an Acros one? generally, why should I go for a component wich is produced with the same policy of massive production frames instead of putting a bit of effort on supporting manufacturers with a more "handmade" point of view? (handmade does not necesarily means handmade, I hope it's more or less undestandable the idea), and also why not support manufacturers making their stuff just some miles from my home instead of inifnite miles away? (in this case is also something of a sustainable question). Sometimes, it's also about using brands wich actually help small manufacturers, even if they're big production companies, they have good policies to help small production builders just because they like to do it (I'm speaking of poor beggars like me with just 20-30 frames a year). I feel right to give them back they trust and help by using their parts whenever possible if it's right for the project.

2-Apart from all this "conceptual" point of view. There's also the other important bit, wich is you can't just go with anything, with mo matters. As said before, if we're speaking about handmade frames with the most inifnite care for quality and product result, I can't see acceptable to use a crap headset, wheels, tyres, or any other part, as not only will affect on the final result performance, but also dos not make much sense to me as it's somekind like using cheap tyres/oil on a Ferrari car, of course they "could" be used, but then why bother on going for this type of vehicle...

Cheers

[NBC]

thanks for your opinions guys

what i'm hearing is that complete bikes are preferable, but if not, atleast fit a customers choice of headset, obviously one of some quality, even if not actually supplying said part ?

thanks again

nathan

[Zimmermanbicycle]

Yes,this

thanks for your opinions guys

what i'm hearing is that complete bikes are preferable, but if not, atleast fit a customers choice of headset, obviously one of some quality, even if not actually supplying said part ?

thanks again

nathan

[Tom Kellogg]

We include a King headset. Part of the deal. We install them properly, they are the best. If someone really wants something else and the one they want is of an acceptable quality, we'll include it and install it for them. But our framesets always leave here with a headset installed. Period.

[Matthew J]

I've never sold a frame, but a $50 Tange or IRD with sealed cartridge bearings will keep your fork where it belongs and will get your customer on the road faster. A headset is one of those "I don't even want to have to think about it" parts atmo, where a properly installed and adjusted $25 part can perform just as long and just as well as a part that costs $100 more.

From a practical point of view, yes.

Headsets have a prominent spot on the bike. A drab headset on an otherwise good looking custom detracts from the visual.