bike shit fit

[WFSTEKL]

the re-tool thread has resurfaced another annoyance that i have regarding fit. imho, most unfit cyclists don't sit far enough behind the BB. the result is that too much weight is cantilevered over the front end of the machine and the unfit athlete doesn't have the strength to sustain the position with comfort. the common solution(s) are to shorten the reach by moving the saddle forward yet some more(argh!), shorten the stem and raise the bar. i am convinced that this has caused the epidemic of shopping carts that pass as bicycles that are so prevalent today. a whole different world opens up once you settle in behind the BB.

[Saab2000]

Being further behind the BB requires a lower saddle position.

I agree 100% with Mr. WFSTEKL.

Here is an example of a questionable fit job. Just doesn't look quite right, does it? If the guy had fused vertebrae or something along those lines I can see it. But the fact is that many of the marginal fits we see are the result of bizarre mythology among the LBS crowd and putting numbers into a fit calculator to come up with a one-size-fits-all figure. There is a dealer locally who sells Serottas (and everyone knows I love that brand) but the bikes coming out of that place make me wince, with positions seriously not all that far off this Colnago.

One of the guys we ride with here in MI has had a fit done by his dealer. He owns a big box store brand and is a really fit rider. They have done some hideous things to him and while he sits on the bike comfortably for him on the shop trainer, it hurts to look at and it has a very negative impact on his handling of the machine. And he refuses to change because he thinks they're experts and we're not.

I brought my bike to Mike Z when I ordered mine. He spent 10 minutes watching me ride up and down the road and another 20 minutes making measurements and another 30 talking to me about my riding, etc. End result is the best fitting bike I've ever had.

Not all people who claim to know what they're doing are equal.

[Lionel]

Hum, I must be ultra fit as the retul dude wanted to move me forward and forward. But I am resisting and will stay back there.

[WFSTEKL]

every one of saab's machines has been well proportioned and smart. you'll never see that guy riding a shopping cart, aka faster backwards machine!

[ChimpMensa]

imho, most unfit cyclists don't sit far enough behind the BB.

Better if read as "most unknowledgable cyclists don't sit far enough behind the BB." There are plenty of cyclists that by virtue of youth, fitness, training hours per week, etc. have lousy position, form and stroke. But those self-absorbed all think they are hot damn simply because they can go fast. Kinda like a bike store selling the virtues of a bike by asking you to lift it up by the stem and saddle. Some folks just don't know what they don't know - it's a bike, you just pedal it, right?

[Lionel]

imho, most unfit cyclists don't sit far enough behind the BB.

BTW, this begs the question, what do you consider far enough behind the BB?

[WFSTEKL]

far enough is when you are planted on the machine with a weight distribution that allows you to rip the pedals off while in sublime comfort but not too far back where the hip angle is too tight.

[WFSTEKL]

in other words, you shouldn't be burning any watts to simply sit on your machine.

[Lionel]

And how does that translate to numbers?

[ergott]

And how does that translate to numbers?

It translates by riding a lot and figuring it out. Look up David Kirks thoughts on saddle setback. No number are involved.

-Eric

[WFSTEKL]

And how does that translate to numbers?

numbers are translated to kilometers. ride your bike.......a lot. you will figure it out. you will not figure it out while riding your turbo on a winter afternoon. oh, someone else already said it, but if you experiment with more setback, you will also have to lower your saddle. just fyi. you will know when you've found the right position when you feel neutral on top of your machine and can crank at LT with no discomfort. you will also discover that a longer reach feels more natural and you can flirt with a lower bar drop as long as you don't pinch your hip angle.

[Lionel]

I've read that and this is pretty much the way I have done it for myself. But at the end you end up with a given saddle setback, in my case 90mm to 95mm and I was just wondering if this is considered "far behind".

[WFSTEKL]

ah, eric beat me to the punch!

[Lionel]

Yeah, I ride about 10K per year and I have done that for 15 years, is that good enough?

If anyone tells me that he never wonders about his fit I won't believe that. Even when you ride a lot you go thru periods of doubts. For me it happen recently with a tendinitis.

[dashDustin]

Timely thread. I recently dropped my saddle 5mm and bumped it back a cm. now I'm looking at 9cm of setback and some sore muscles that haven't been sore before.

If case y'all were wondering.

Really I've been wanting to get thoughts from some outspoken fit guru that hasn't done Retul or BG. Wondering about hip angle, leg extension, setback, stress on knees, etc. I'd like to know more. But don't know where to start.

[Saab2000]

BTW, this begs the question, what do you consider far enough behind the BB?

I would say far enough back is where you sit and don't notice that you have had to subconsciously slide back or forward. If my saddle isn't far enough back I occasionally notice that I nudge myself backwards a bit. If I notice that on a regular basis I know I need to nudge the saddle back instead and this usually solves the problem.

For me a normal 73º seat angle with a normal seapost is not far enough back, though now it works better because most of today's saddles have longer rails than my favorite, the Selle Italia Turbomatic series.

Angle numbers in isolation are a bit useless though.

I'd put it in a spot where you're not finding yourself sliding forwards or backwards too much. And as I noted, putting the saddle further back usually requires something of a drop in the saddle height.

Keep in mind that my advice is simply gained from my own riding. I have no other knowledge and have never been trained, other than that I always wanted to emulate guys like Greg Lemond or Bernard Hinault or Laurent Fignon. All of whom were Guimard pupils. And it seems to work for my body for the most part.




Contrary to popular belief, this is not a painful way to sit on a bike. On the contrary, it is comfortable and the bike handles properly.

[Auk]

Blow up and pin a picture of M. Bartoli on your wall. When you achieve that position, stop. Until then, stretch, ride, stretch, ride, eat less, and ride more.

[Lionel]

I would say far enough back is where you sit and don't notice that you have had to subconsciously slide back or forward. If my saddle isn't far enough back I occasionally notice that I nudge myself backwards a bit.

After a first serious fit 12 or so year ago, I kept on wanting to slide back. So I moved my saddle back until it felt good. That's how I ended where I am now.

[Saab2000]

Blow up and pin a picture of M. Bartoli on your wall. When you achieve that position, stop. Until then, stretch, ride, stretch, ride, eat less, and ride more.

Why did he retire? Did he have back problems or something? Crazy talented.

[El Chaba]

If anyone tells me that he never wonders about his fit I won't believe that. Even when you ride a lot you go thru periods of doubts. For me it happen recently with a tendinitis.

That's right...especially with an injury like yours. When you are inured it can cause you to pedal differently and to sit differently on the bike to guard the injury...As a result you may wonder if your fit is wrong.