Max and Mini Max

[vulture]

Ok, somebody tell me the story. Over the years, I have acquired a few of these tubes, some random, and 3 full sets, They came from Santana originally so I think they were OR MAX for their Moda frames, I have built one set into a frame with those damn lugs (no fork), the customer had the lugs and I had the tubes so that was a fun project. I really thought the lugs were U-G-L-Y, but I didn't mess with them too much, not being a lug guy myself, I just made them work. I would love to know the story, the history, the lore. I have one set of mini max so please tell me about this too. I am thinking the minimax might be a 650 ss dirt shredder for my girlfriend. Happy Monday Yall!

[steve garro]

Hektor-Hektor the betty infector had a MODA in I think 1989 or 90'?
Other then vintage that's all I know other then his bike sure had allot of dents!
- Garro.

[vulture]

Hektor-Hektor the betty infector had a MODA in I think 1989 or 90'?
Other then vintage that's all I know other then his bike sure had allot of dents!
- Garro.

Yep, Rex's bike was dented up. Columbus tubing ya know, soft. (smile) Thats all I know about it. I would love to know some history for folkloric and non academic purposes.

[Eric Estlund]

I'm no help with the folklore, but I always just assumed it was a nice way to get big pipes to hook up with small head tubes. Still does that well, too.

[hampco]

Ok, here we go:

Blog post 1

Blog post 2

V-Salon thread

Facebook page

Columbus MAX blog

(The following is boosted from Don Ferris' Anvil web site and contains some dated info as both MAX and MiniMAX is currently available and widely in use with several of us):

More than you ever wanted to know about the MAX tube set:

The Columbus MAX tube set is one of my very favorite steel tube sets so I thought I’d share a bit about it.

The real MAX, which is probably most famous as the tubes used to construct the Merckx MX Leader (except the MXL’s top tube and seat stays which weren't the original MAX shape), had a 40mm x 30mm biaxially ovalized down tube and is shaped from a 35mm round tube with a .8/.5/.8mm butting profile. The MAX seat tube is also ovalized and shaped from a 31.7mm round tube with a 28.6mm diameter at the top and a 37x26.5 ovalization at the BB shell and an .8/.5mm butting profile. The 37mm axis was oriented with the long axis of the BB shell. The chainstays are 36mm tall and 18.5mm wide with a .6mm wall. When you consider these are steel, they're monsters!

The real MAX top tube is based on a 31.7mm tube and biaxially ovalized to 37.5x26mm with a .7/.4/.7mm butting profile. When installed on a frame, the 37.5mm axis followed the long axis of the head tube yet traverses the seat tube, meaning it is significantly wider than the seat tube, which creates either a really weird looking lug or a whole bunch of cool opportunities depending on your point of view. I hold the latter.

MAX seatstays are typically delivered ovalized to 18.5x12mm.

After a scare that MAX was history, it appears that MAX tube sets are still readily available through Columbus even though it hasn't been carried on the books for more than a few years now and I have been able to keep several sets on hand. I use MAX top and down tubes on a lot of the MTBs I build and the entire tube set on many custom road frames. These days I like to build a lot of road frames with a MAX front triangle and a Foco rear. That combination results in a really sweet frame. Check out the gallery and you’ll see some examples.

Contrary to popular belief, the MAX tube set really wasn't that heavy at around 1500 grams for the frame tubes (mitered for a 58cm bike, not raw). That made it only about a hundred grams more than the standard EL/OS tube set and a little less than today's Columbus Thron. The weight culprit was those Monster Truck sized lugs. Depending on the casting, the BB shell alone weighed 260 to 290 grams! Compare that to my normal butted Tig cromo shell weight of 100 grams. The balance of the MAX lugs weighed another 170 odd grams (not including dropouts), so the lugs added 3/4 of a pound right there. The plus side is that it's all added in good places and an owner of a properly assembled MAX lug bike can consider it the last bike you should ever have to purchase even if it's not the last one you'll want.

Along with MAX there was also a "MiniMAX" tubeset which had the same shapes as MAX, but all the tube sizes were reduced .125" with the same or less wall thickness and the chainstays were short at 26mm compared to today’s normal 30mm (for steel). This gave a lighter frame. None of it is available, at least not through normal channels, which is a real shame.

There was also the MAX MTB tube set. It's the same as the Road set save the seat tube and chainstays, which have thicker walls and the chainstays having a single bend for MTB tire clearance. The Tandem set was also regular MAX but included a keel tube.

A lot of folks will tell that the MAX tubeset is too stiff for anybody but big strong guys and that's just not true. It’s an excellent choice for a lot of people in 150+ pound range for road bikes and just about anyone for MTBs. It’s tough, it’s not too heavy, and it’ll be there for you in thick or thin and it looks cool. What more could you ask for?

[vulture]

Now that's what I'm talking about. I found your tube orientation interesting and a cool perspective. I do have a sad Max story. The 10th frame I ever built was out of max, (SS 26" wheel mountain bike.) I built it for a friend who flogged the hell out of it, eventually he moved to Vermont and got into riding it as a fixed gear mountain bike, he told me he would push it up gnarly east coast trails then ride/skid back down. One time he crashed and fell right on his bike and folded it like a taco. The front triangle folded mid span and cracked damn near all the way thru. This was not covered by any guarantee agreement, I called it a crash replacement. It lived for 7 years under this kind of riding so I can't complain. Thanks for the info Hampco! When I get Jessica's bike rolling I will post it up.