2020 Political Chatter

[Matthew Strongin]

I've been fascinated by those that are Qanon believers (the "anon" after Q stands for anonymous). I would think that anyone that graduated from 8th grade would have enough sense not follow them. How anyone could believe that there is a cabal of high up Democratic government and Hollywood individuals that are sexual predators on children and then cannibalistically eat them is beyond me. I would think parents of the victims might notice and make a fuss. It wouldn't be a believable plot for even a D grade movie. Trump apparently is going to save these children (or something). Furthermore nobody knows who this Q person (or persons) is. He/she/they drops hints in odd places (I have no idea where on the internet these places are located) that interpreters interpret so true believers can understand what is said. It makes so little sense I can't even describe it adequately. They like to use religious imagery associated with Biblical prophecy too. I'm religious and also don't understand how other religious people can't see that Donald Trump is amoral and all his actions are motived only by self interest. I fail to see how anything he does leads to any good. This world is full of mysteries.

You'll probably enjoy this group too: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/...eir-meme-magic

The religion of Kek. Descendents of the ancient kingdom of Kekistan. Also, Trump supporters who flew their flags at the Capitol yesterday.

[gregl]

^^^ Agreed, that seems so poorly written. Doctor President, heal thyself, apparently.

A great deal of the Constitution is written in a nebulous fashion. I can only assume the framers of the Constitution wanted to leave it open to interpretation for future generations. At least that’s what my 8th grade social studies teacher taught me. The Constitution’s authors also appear to believe that it would be used by honest and honorable humans. Clearly that was an error in judgement.

Greg

[j44ke]

Washington Post is tracking down some of the newest celebrities.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...356_story.html

[bigbill]

My fairly recent discovery of a CSA monument at the Miami City Cemetery (placed by the United Daughters of the Confederacy) piqued my interest in the Lost Cause Myth, so I've spent a pretty good amount of time over the last few months reading about it. I can see why you'd choose that topic for your thesis. It's fascinating.

The UDC was the driving force behind Confederate monuments all over the country, primarily the South. The 1890s through the beginning of WW I was the peak of monument dedications. Most were done during that time because so many veterans were still alive. The Confederate women were the "Ark" of Southern history, the monuments just reinforced the falsehoods because if there's a monument that commemorates the made up event, it was obviously true. Now the monuments are rallying points for white supremacists. I debated joining the Sons of Confederate Veterans (I qualify) to get access to their archives, but I just couldn't do it. I found some work arounds and got what I needed.

The three original symbols of the Lost Cause were the song "Dixie" which was written by a blackface minstrel performer in Ohio, the grey uniform jacket, and the Stars & Bars flag which was not the battle flag that supremacists use at rallies. The more I dug into the topic, the more horrifying it was.

[j44ke]

The difficulty I see with removing Trump at this point is not due to a lack of necessity. I think he has crossed a line into being an enemy of the state, and as such, should be stopped because he won't stop himself until he has reached whatever nihilistic zenith he has at the terminus of his psychosis. I fail to see how this is a hysterical reaction to the events of yesterday as it is just the latest act over a four year period during which plenty of waiting and waiting and waiting for rational behavior to begin occurred. The problem with removing Trump now is that it gives Pence the opportunity to pardon Trump. That would be a worse outcome.

I also don't see any reason to appease what is a coagulating insurgency among his followers. Many of them violated federal law yesterday, and while they are welcome to make those choices for themselves, they should understand that there are certain costs associated with those choices.

[bigbill]

The problem with removing Trump now is that it gives Pence the opportunity to pardon Trump. That would be a worse outcome.

I don't think he would. Although a recent occurrence, I think Pence would like to be on the right side of history going forward. His political career is essentially over, he's toxic for any future office, but he can leave via the moral high ground if he chooses.

[colker]

Why Trump Must Be Removed and Disqualified From Public Office | New York Times

"After a mob incited by President Trump stormed and occupied the Capitol, American democracy needs protecting now — and not just now but in the coming weeks and years as well.

There are reports of preliminary discussions within the administration about invoking the 25h Amendment, a provision in the Constitution that provides a process to declare a sitting president no longer capable of fulfilling his duties. Another call is coming from a surprising source: The National Association of Manufacturers, not normally an organization known for this kind of political activism, said that Vice President Mike Pence “should seriously consider working with the cabinet” to invoke the amendment to remove President Trump and “preserve democracy.” People are invoking the 25th Amendment on the grounds that Mr. Trump is not fit to hold office and incited the chaos that unfolded on Capitol Hill — and may unfold again.

There are also calls from a number of Democratic representatives to impeach and remove the president for his actions around the illegal and violent takeover of one of the most hallowed traditions in American democracy.

The magnitude of the current crisis calls for both of these measures. The threat the president poses to our democracy is not short-lived and must be cut off urgently and decisively — before it leads to even greater degradation to American democratic processes and traditions. It will need to happen quickly, even with other demands pressing on our country’s leadership like certifying the election results, rolling out the coronavirus vaccine and calming a nation in crisis."

I have never read a clearer, more rational statement..

[colker]

We are lucky Trump is a deep down a coward and clown. Once the toothpaste came out of tube yesterday, someone like Erdogan or Orban would realize the die has been cast, and they have to finish it or go to prison. Trump, because he doesn't see the big picture, was still stewing about Pence. He missed his opportunity. In the future with a different person, we may not be so lucky.

We know there is an affinity bias between law enforcement and MAGA. You also had MAGA protestors at a score of State Capitals- some of them armed heavily, see Michigan again for details.

Instead, we are left with a ex-President who will continue to claim the election was stolen and he won in a landslide. The misinformation media chamber is already working overtime to spin yesterday events. Useful Idiot Matt Gaetz was on Laura Ingraham last night blaming Antifa who used the peaceful rally as cover to commit the acts.

I hope I am wrong, and the next few months shows this to be Trump's Joe McCarthy moment of 'have you no shame' and he fades from view. But I think the alt-reality ecosystem on the net is too big and myth making has already begun.

Trump will need to pardon Don Jr for the speech yesterday in front of the mob- Rise up and Fight, you can be a hero or a zero.
Otherwise, I think he is going to jail.

The clowns who posted selfies in Pelosi's office etc can easily found via social media footprint. They need to be tried too.

Unfortunately i am afraid your predictions are very close to reality. Trump is a midia clown but he is opening the door to more consistent, hardened villains to do the same.
In a distant past, Trump´s head would be chopped in public alongside a dozen more "patriots" just to send a clear message. We are more elegant these days but the logic of overthrowing institutions is still very much the same.

[72gmc]

I don't think he would. Although a recent occurrence, I think Pence would like to be on the right side of history going forward. His political career is essentially over, he's toxic for any future office, but he can leave via the moral high ground if he chooses.

I am hoping this is true. I'm hoping this is more of a business decision than ever, and Pence doesn't want to alienate the establishment from his future business opportunities.

[Chik]

Well, 2021 is off to a cracking start...

[colker]

Probably way-way off topic, but I'm finishing up my capstone/thesis on the Lost Cause myth. Following the Civil War, Southern "historians" created an alternative history to justify the destruction of their economy and way of life. They did it with blame. Robert E. Lee would have won at Gettysburg but General Longstreet's actions lost the battle. This isn't true, but it protected the deification of Lee by shifting blame. Lee was a poor tactician and sacrificed his men because he wouldn't listen to his advisors. Pence is Longstreet. Trump has been deified by his rabid followers, my neighborhood is dotted with flags bearing his image. Now the game is blame because Trump is surely incapable of failure. So now, he has destroyed the Republican party because of his actions, the rationalization and alternate history will increase in the next year. I hope we're smarter this time, but we won't be.

Wise choice for a thesis since the main challenge to democracy and civilization is the disintegration of a rulling notion of reality based on science. I believe the internet is leading us back to the middle ages.

[davids]

The three original symbols of the Lost Cause were the song "Dixie" which was written by a blackface minstrel performer in Ohio, the grey uniform jacket, and the Stars & Bars flag which was not the battle flag that supremacists use at rallies. The more I dug into the topic, the more horrifying it was.

And if I understand correctly, "Dixie" may have actually been stolen from free Black musicians from Ohio.
Which, if true, should surprise precisely no one.

[j44ke]

Well, 2021 is off to a cracking start...

Hey Chikashi - we needed something to fill in the gap in the cross season, you know? :-)

[bigbill]

Wise choice for a thesis since the main challenge to democracy and civilization is the disintegration of a rulling notion of reality based on science. I believe the internet is leading us back to the middle ages.

The South didn't need the internet to concoct a myth. Jubal Early was the Lost Cause press secretary and controlled the message by being the gatekeeper of public remarks. The myth really took off after the death of Robert E. Lee in 1870. The 1877 election of Hayes as President was the result of a deal made in Congress to give him the presidency via the electoral college in return for the removal of Union troops in the South who were trying to ensure that the civil rights of the newly freed African-Americans were enforced. Removal of the troops allowed the South to regain control and rule through threats and intimidation. The first Jim Crow law was passed in 1881. The monuments came later.

[bigbill]

And if I understand correctly, "Dixie" may have actually been stolen from free Black musicians from Ohio.
Which, if true, should surprise precisely no one.

That's one of the theories. Minstrel shows were primarily done in blackface.

[colker]

Trump was banned from facebook and paceline.. i mean instagram.

[colker]

The South didn't need the internet to concoct a myth.

It was easier then because there were no huge media outfits carrying news and making everybody "aware of the true facts". Yet we reached and crossed the tipping point; media grew so big and fast that "true facts" became obsolete. There is no more hierarchy in the facts narrative. You chose sides just like the South chose their narrative.

[j44ke]

The South didn't need the internet to concoct a myth. Jubal Early was the Lost Cause press secretary and controlled the message by being the gatekeeper of public remarks. The myth really took off after the death of Robert E. Lee in 1870. The 1877 election of Hayes as President was the result of a deal made in Congress to give him the presidency via the electoral college in return for the removal of Union troops in the South who were trying to ensure that the civil rights of the newly freed African-Americans were enforced. Removal of the troops allowed the South to regain control and rule through threats and intimidation. The first Jim Crow law was passed in 1881. The monuments came later.

1890 was the beginning of Monument Ave in Richmond VA. I lived in the building blocked by the tree in the upper left of the lead photo in this article. It was owned by a daughter of a daughter of the Confederacy. She was incredibly evil. Beautiful building though. Huge.

[bigbill]

1890 was the beginning of Monument Ave in Richmond VA. I lived in the building blocked by the tree in the upper right of the lead photo in this article. It was owned by a daughter of a daughter of the Confederacy. She was incredibly evil. Beautiful building though. Huge.

There were some amazing monuments funded by the UDC. Pompeo Coppini was the most prolific in Texas, his work on display in Paris, Texas is amazing in detail and scale. It's also a Confederate monument on the courthouse grounds. In 1920, the upstanding citizens of Paris formed a mob to remove two black men accused of murder from the jail. The men were escorted past the monument on their way to the fairgrounds to be burned at the stake. When I moved away from Paris in 2018, there was still controversy about moving the monument away from the courthouse. My favorite argument, "It's our heritage" it was not their heritage, Lamar County voted against secession. I support the removal of monuments and relocating them to a location where they can be viewed in context. The Lost Cause is part of American History, we shouldn't erase it.

The Lost Cause should be a teaching point in schools so people can learn the root causes of systemic racism and how it shaped the world we live in.

[colker]

There were some amazing monuments funded by the UDC. Pompeo Coppini was the most prolific in Texas, his work on display in Paris, Texas is amazing in detail and scale. It's also a Confederate monument on the courthouse grounds. In 1920, the upstanding citizens of Paris formed a mob to remove two black men accused of murder from the jail. The men were escorted past the monument on their way to the fairgrounds to be burned at the stake. When I moved away from Paris in 2018, there was still controversy about moving the monument away from the courthouse. My favorite argument, "It's our heritage" it was not their heritage, Lamar County voted against secession. I support the removal of monuments and relocating them to a location where they can be viewed in context. The Lost Cause is part of American History, we shouldn't erase it.

The Lost Cause should be a teaching point in schools so people can learn the root causes of systemic racism and how it shaped the world we live in.

Seems the fracture in american society precedes Trump. Civil wars never end well.