alignment plate, and what about mic6?

[crumpton]

2" thick as an alignment surface?

i'm interested in real world experience, not theory.

anyone actually done it?

[Eric Estlund]

Doug Fattic mentioned some time ago working on aluminum alignment plates for portable use. I'd contact him to see what happened and how successful that was.

[Clockwork]

I used 1" thick mic6 for a few years and it worked fine. I can not quantify how true it stayed though--just that it was good enough for me. The bottom was fully supported with 6" of particle board.

-Joel

[e-RICHIE]

i don't think the business depth of my M+L table is more than 2cm, webbing notwithstanding.
the 2000 pound granite plates thing is lost on me atmo.

[EricKeller]

Doug had one of his aluminum alignment tables at the Philly Bike Expo. It does have a web. Top wasn't that thick, not even an inch. Mic 6 is pretty stable, I'm guessing that it would work fine. You might not need 2"

The 2000 pound granite plate thing has to do with the fact that they are usually really cheap or free, lots of granite around. The people that really need granite don't want to go used.

[cement shoes]

I saw Doug's cast aluminum plate at Cirque this past summer. It looked pretty nice but I'd be concerned about durability with aluminum. I'd imagine you'd need to get the mic6 hard anodized. Why not give Don Ferris a buzz?

I just looked mic6 (actually lists as mic6 or similar) up on metalexpress.net. The thickest they list is 1.5". If you get that in 48" length x 36" width, it costs almost $1300.00 and they list the weight at a touch over 260lbs. You still need to get it machined for your accessories and I think you'd need hard-anodizing. You'd also need to have a stand fabricated. I think by the time you're all in, you could re-condition a cast iron plate for less and have something totally bomber. Is weight/portability a concern for you?

[crumpton]

your stuff(e-RICHIE) is steel and hardened, i'm talking cast aluminum. we had one at bikefriday (cast alu) but was only .75" and was always going out so the basically canti'd the thing from the center and tuned it at the corners with turnbuckles on stays.

hench 2"

[crumpton]

I saw Doug's cast aluminum plate at Cirque this past summer. It looked pretty nice but I'd be concerned about durability with aluminum. I'd imagine you'd need to get the mic6 hard anodized. Why not give Don Ferris a buzz?

I just looked mic6 (actually lists as mic6 or similar) up on metalexpress.net. The thickest they list is 1.5". If you get that in 48" length x 36" width, it costs almost $1300.00 and they list the weight at a touch over 260lbs. You still need to get it machined for your accessories and I think you'd need hard-anodizing. You'd also need to have a stand fabricated. I think by the time you're all in, you could re-condition a cast iron plate for less and have something totally bomber. Is weight/portability a concern for you?

i simply have no desire for an 1100-1300 lb rock until i am in my final shop with space and bigger machine tools. i am willing to pay a premium for a lighter solution.

[Eric Estlund]

FWIW, when I started at BF all of the aluminum plates had been replaced with steel.

[EricKeller]

I saw Doug's cast aluminum plate at Cirque this past summer. It looked pretty nice but I'd be concerned about durability with aluminum. I'd imagine you'd need to get the mic6 hard anodized.
...snip...
Is weight/portability a concern for you?

I think it would need to be hard anodized too. I've been messing with mic6, and it scratches easily. I was wondering if weight was the main concern. Doug's table doesn't cost as much as a 2" thick plate of the same size and isn't as heavy. I'm thinking that framebuilding students are probably as hard on it as anyone would be, and it looked to be in pretty good shape

[crumpton]

I think it would need to be hard anodized too. I've been messing with mic6, and it scratches easily. I was wondering if weight was the main concern. Doug's table doesn't cost as much as a 2" thick plate of the same size and isn't as heavy. I'm thinking that framebuilding students are probably as hard on it as anyone would be, and it looked to be in pretty good shape

is dougs anodized?

[cement shoes]

I don't recall Doug's table being hard anodized. It had a sort of dull colored/grayish finish and appeared to have been blanchard ground. I don't recall the tolerances on that table either so you'd need to ask Doug.

[EricKeller]

no, Doug's table is clearly not anodized. And I am sure it's harder to get one than just getting a big plate of mic6.

[Pi Guy]

is dougs anodized?

I took Doug's class a couple summers ago. He also brought the aluminum table with him to Philly this passed weekend. I am certain that it is not anodized. Can't remember the tolerances though.

-Jason

[crumpton]

go read up on mic6. the whole point is its flatness and hardness from the start. no need for grinding assuming it has been stored and handled correctly. it also needs to be properly supported in a stand lest it warps.
i am getting $2k quotes for 36x48x2"

[Doug Fattic]

I do have a cast aluminum alignment table in my shop for student use. The top is about an inch thick and with the addition of the webbing below about 3” thick. There are 7 pads underneath (that are ground flat so the top can be ground flat) that add even more thickness. Mine is 32” X 48” and I’ve suggested to students to get 34” instead because it fits my fixture slightly better. The top weighs about 170 lbs. Herbie and I didn’t have any trouble getting it into and out of the car to take to Philly. 4 steel legs are bolted to the corner pads with 4 bolts each. It is accurate to at least 10 thousandths of an inch tolerance across the entire surface. One of my students had his specially ground by a company in New York to less than 2 thousandths. The company that makes them also bores a post hole in one of the pads.

In over two years of constant use by students (who are infinitely harder on equipment than I am) it has held up very well. It will scratch more easily than my cast iron ones. The reason I bought it is that some students under no present circumstances can have a 1000 lb table. No way. This is a reasonable alternative and much more useful than a beam. I like my cast iron ones better because they are tougher but I’d rather have this than a granite one. I think the company has sold about 6 or 7 of them to framebuilders.

[edoz]

Mic6 will hold it's tolerance if supported right. Be careful scratching or gouging it and you'll be fine. We use a fair amount of it where I work, both for fixtures and inspection plates. It's just as accurate as the high dollar 8" granite slab we have.

[bellman]

From the FNL pics it looks like Signal is working off of aluminum these days

[crumpton]

Thanks Doug, real work experience kicks ass. but im not picturing the pad or how the webbing is attached. can you provide a pic of that entire 32x48 setup?

I do have a cast aluminum alignment table in my shop for student use. The top is about an inch thick and with the addition of the webbing below about 3” thick. There are 7 pads underneath (that are ground flat so the top can be ground flat) that add even more thickness. Mine is 32” X 48” and I’ve suggested to students to get 34” instead because it fits my fixture slightly better. The top weighs about 170 lbs. Herbie and I didn’t have any trouble getting it into and out of the car to take to Philly. 4 steel legs are bolted to the corner pads with 4 bolts each. It is accurate to at least 10 thousandths of an inch tolerance across the entire surface. One of my students had his specially ground by a company in New York to less than 2 thousandths. The company that makes them also bores a post hole in one of the pads.

In over two years of constant use by students (who are infinitely harder on equipment than I am) it has held up very well. It will scratch more easily than my cast iron ones. The reason I bought it is that some students under no present circumstances can have a 1000 lb table. No way. This is a reasonable alternative and much more useful than a beam. I like my cast iron ones better because they are tougher but I’d rather have this than a granite one. I think the company has sold about 6 or 7 of them to framebuilders.

[Dazza]

i don't think the business depth of my M+L table is more than 2cm, webbing notwithstanding.
the 2000 pound granite plates thing is lost on me atmo.

they keep the work shop cool during the hot summer days