Uhm . . . car racing?

[false_aesthetic]

I know NOTHING.

Indy vs F1.
I get that Indy goes around a track. F1 goes around things like Monaco.
Cars are similar in shape but I'm guessing very very different.

How? Why? What?

Questions pop into my head while I ride.

Don't want to bring up a debate about which is cooler or whatever. They both require skill that I do not have

[rmplum]

It's really eye opening to see a modern Indy car next to an F1 car. Night and day. The aero-bit evolution/sophistication in F1 is simply astounding.

[Honus]

F1 cars don't go on oval tracks. There's a LOT more money in F1 and the cars are more technically sophisticated. The aero packages are different as Indycar is typically higher speed than F1.

It'll be exciting to see F1 go back to turbos.

[Saab2000]

F1 = Europro road racing, generally raced by the sons of billionaires
IndyCar = The local town center criterium, generally raced by the sons and daughters of multi-millionaires

Very few have successfully crossed between the two. Emerson Fittipaldi is one who did. So did a driver called Mario Andretti, who also raced successfully in NASCAR of all things and pretty much kicked ass in whatever he drove. But not many others who succeed in one succeed in the other.

Alain Prost, a huge F1 star of the '80s is also a huge cycling fan.

F1 is the zenith of 4-wheeled racing. Everything else is go-kart racing IMHO.

[rmplum]

Watching these guys race through Monaco is always amazing, especially the in-car footage. If you've never seen F1 like, I highly recommend it. The engine sounds and braking are just impossible. The last few years at indy we sat at the end of the straight as they braked for turn 1. Like dropping anchor.

Someday I'll make it to Montreal to watch, and I'd love to see F1 do a Vegas circuit - which seems unlikely now with Austin's new track.

FCTi

[Saab2000]

I doubt the US will see F1 again in a long time. The powers that be see the US as a nation of auto racing philistines. They can't fill the stands, the TV revenues are low, nobody gives a shit about it here. NASCAR exists here.

They tried it in Indianapolis and it was a good effort, but that tire fiasco really was not good for the future of F1 racing in the US.

[rmplum]

Formula 1 United States | Austin 2012

If you build it, they will come

[Saab2000]

Very good! I did not know that. I have not followed F1 since I moved back from Europe. That is good news for a long-term venue. Too bad the Indy track never caught on because I liked the combo of the part-oval and part road course. The Indy 500 is my favorite US auto race and to include part of that track (even though it was backwards....) was pretty cool.

Austin should be a good thing. Maybe NAHBS will be held in the infield.

[Honus]

F1 = Europro road racing, generally raced by the sons of billionaires
IndyCar = The local town center criterium, generally raced by the sons and daughters of multi-millionaires

Very few have successfully crossed between the two. Emerson Fittipaldi is one who did. So did a driver called Mario Andretti, who also raced successfully in NASCAR of all things and pretty much kicked ass in whatever he drove. But not many others who succeed in one succeed in the other.

Alain Prost, a huge F1 star of the '80s is also a huge cycling fan.

F1 is the zenith of 4-wheeled racing. Everything else is go-kart racing IMHO.

WRC is pretty high up there- I read an article where Martin Brundle said he took a ride in a rally car and it was the most frightening thing he'd ever done. Flying 120mph through the forest, jumping the car 8 ft in the air with someone sitting next to you telling you which way to turn is pretty nuts- and there's no support, no practice runs- just a recce to check out the course. Group B rally racing was insane. Ask most F1 drivers who the best motorsport drivers are across the board and they'll probably tell you it's rally drivers. The technology isn't quite the same since they are based on road cars but they're certainly no slouch. If Group B was brought back they would definitely rival F1 in the tech department. I personally wish they would bring back Can Am- now that was some awesome racing.

Mario Andretti is probably the greatest driver of all time.

[Saab2000]

Martin Brundle drove F1 too didn't he? I remember him and liked that he actually seemed down to earth. But the larger-than-life persona of guys like Ayrton Senna is part of what makes F1 so special.

I really like the old videos of when Porsche ran rallys in 911s in races like Paris-Dakar. 150 mph on dirt roads, drifting through villages leaving a massive cloud of dust.

[rmplum]

The 959. I'd park one in my garage.

[Saab2000]

Jacky Ickx

[Honus]

Yep- Brundle drove F1 and sports car and won at LeMans driving the Jag XJR-12. Those Group C cars were pretty cool and Porsche kicked butt there too with Jacky Ickx in the 936/956. The 959 is an awesome car- I don't think it was really eclipsed in supercar status until the McLaren F1. What is so funny about the 911 is that it is one of the most successful race cars of all time and yet there isn't a single race car engineer in the world that given a blank sheet of paper would design a rear engined car- it's just so successful because it has been so highly developed (and has been in production for so long.)

Technology wise Porsche has always done some interesting things- Aluminum space frames (pumped full of air with a pressure gauge so you knew if the frame was cracked), pressurized fuel bladders (no fuel pump to save weight), Beryllium brake rotors, tapered wire Titanium springs, etc. They even used all silver wiring vs. copper to save weight in hillclimb cars. They had one instance where they ran so much boost that they simply welded the cylinder heads to the engine block to keep it together. Porsche built one of the most advanced F1 cars ever in the late 40's- the Cisitalia 360. It had four wheel drive and mid engine supercharged flat twelve with rear transaxle.

Here's some Group B rally car action. I've always liked the Lancias from this era (the 037 more so than the Delta Integrale) with the twin charged engines- roots blower for the bottom end and a big turbo for the top end. It's cool to see them belch flame when they get on the gas coming through a turn. Anti lag systems those days were somewhat crude but effective...



All this car talk is making me want to watch the movie Grand Prix. James Garner looks the business driving the F2 cars in the film...

[ChristianSLC]

Another difference between the two is that F1 teams are required to design and build their own chassis, while I believe the Indy teams just buy theirs. Some teams like Ferrari also develop their own engines. That means a whole different level when it comes to money. I haven't followed F1 in a few years, but I recall hearing rumors back then that the budget for Toyota's F1 team was around $700 million a year and had something like 1000 people working on it. Insane.

[Honus]

Yep- $500 million+ is absolutely not out of the question. You are correct about the chassis- Ferrari also made their own transmission but I don't know if that's still true. I also don't think Indy uses semi auto gearboxes? Then there's mass dampers, KERS systems and all sorts of other technical developments. Indy cars also don't run in the rain, they have a pace car and are running start. It used to be that Indy cars used Aluminum construction for the bottom part of the chassis tub while F1 was all carbon but I think they're both carbon now.

I have a friend that used to be a data acquisition engineer for one of the top CART teams and the amount of testing they do is just nuts.

[christian]

I get that Indy goes around a track. F1 goes around things like Monaco.

To be fair, F1 cars mostly go around prepared tracks (aka road courses) too. The tracks made from public roads are quite rare - Monaco and Spa Francorchamps in Belgium were the only ones that appeared on the F1 circuit with any regularity. Indy cars have also run street based courses, notably in Long Beach.

[Honus]

Of course, F1 isn't as much fun as Gymkhana-


That's one way to destroy a set of tires...

[robin3mj]

I'm too lazy to find it...someone dig up that video from the 70s of the guy driving across Paris in roughly 12 minutes.

[Honus]

You mean this one?


There's another one of a scooter that's nuts too

[ChristianSLC]

Man, the audio on that video is great.