It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[mzilliox]

LOL! First hit I got when I Googled "meritocracy" included this quote:

"In a government based on meritocracy, the leaders are chosen because they are the smartest and have best judgment. They can come from the poorest, most humble background just as long as they are the most noble and fit to rule."

meritocracy - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

This is just too rich!
its why Trump wont testify, but lies about not being able to testify or present a case. he can fool his base into thinking stuff is unfair, when in fact he can testify or provide any witness he wants, the country at large would love this to happen as would the house. Probably why Pelosi is holding the impeachment for as long as she can, shes waiting for a real trial (if hes innocent, surely hed want to prove it yeah? i mean thats normal.) if he talks, about anything at all, he digs his hole deeper. you cannot defend what is not defensible without lying, and lying would cause perjury, and we all know perjury is absolutely impeachable. the emperor would show that hes never had any clothes at all.

[mzilliox]

I never compared Warren's LIE to anything or Trumps, yet you chose to propose her lie was less than all of his- insinuating that I dismissed his lies. Read what you wrote.

Oh by the way:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...test-is-wrong/

So why has she removed her DNA results from her website and apologized about it? Never mind, People without blinders know what she did and why.

Your defense of Warren is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to party loyalty. But this is an impeachment thread, I'll keep my powder dry on Warren for the future.

appologizing for a bad choice, then moving on to tackle other issues. wouldnt that be nice from a leader? babble babble deflect

[colker]

reason here, its like some refuse to take the next step in the thought process, just see the surface of things. at one point trump was lauded here by one of these fellas because he gets "ratings". as if our president exists for our entertainment. oh, im entertained to be sure, but i dont want to be entertained, i want to completely forget about the guy in the office, like we all did with obama, because things werre actually pretty fair and easy for everyone, not just a few.

ill leave with this thought from Upton Sinclair that seemed a bit poingant to me today
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

I agree : i like a president who is the opposite of a loud personality. I like boring politics. I want to discuss bikes, movies, music... not a politicians outrageous behaviour while rulling my country. I am not paying taxes to be entertained or motivated.. i want a swiss watch in power.

[mzilliox]

I agree : i like a president who is the opposite of a loud personality. I like boring politics. I want to discuss bikes, movies, music... not a politicians outrageous behaviour while rulling my country. I am not paying taxes to be entertained or motivated.. i want a swiss watch in power.

absolutley, i think that is part of the massive problem here. some part of America is seeing their level of comfort being caught up to, and for some reason this causes unrest and a desire to fight. no idea why, we are doing pretty well here overall. even without the "trump Economy" we were all doing better than the rest of the world, and moving the correct direction. if you want to ignore AI and Human caused climate change (the 2 most critical issues of our generation) you are not a party taking our challenges seriously. if your main concern is base crap like taxation and nitpicking on how to define "American", you are not solving any problems at all, you are just going through the motions. I want person who has nuanced solutions to our challenges, not a bull in a gina shop who uses money to ram his way into every situation he encounters. I want a clever individual coming up with clever solutions to the largest existential challenges humanity has faced, not an ignoramus conserned about his rating and optics and a base that comes nowhere near represnting the most diverse country in the world.

alas, some small portion of my compatriots want a fashion show or america's next top president brought to you by Brawndo, "its got what plants need, its got electrolytes"

[choke]

Blue Jays, you may be barking up the wrong tree with this crowd. Most of these good folks have been trained to avoid opinions that differ from their own. These folks seek superficial diversity but avoid diverse opinions. Observe in this thread and in others how many posts are not challenging opposing viewpoints, but challenging your right to have an opposing viewpoint. Many comments are posted not to encourage debate, they’re designed to deny debate and discussion.

This is disingenuous. Or it shows how little you are actually open to other perspectives.

This was lost in the shuffle but I want to bring it back up. I do agree that while many here are open to other perspectives, there is a very vocal group who aren't. IMO they have no desire to have an actual debate, they would much rather attack the person with the opposing viewpoint and pat each other on the back for their 'superiority'. So to cut the chase, I agree with Dallas Tex.

I seldom post in political threads on VS because of this, as it seems to be a waste of time for the most part. My political views in general are quite different from the majority here (though there are things we agree on) and I love a good debate - but I don't feel that a debate is what a good portion of the members who participate in political threads actually want.

[colker]

This was lost in the shuffle but I want to bring it back up. I do agree that while many here are open to other perspectives, there is a very vocal group who aren't. IMO they have no desire to have an actual debate, they would much rather attack the person with the opposing viewpoint and pat each other on the back for their 'superiority'. So to cut the chase, I agree with Dallas Tex.

I seldom post in political threads on VS because of this, as it seems to be a waste of time for the most part. My political views in general are quite different from the majority here (though there are things we agree on) and I love a good debate - but I don't feel that a debate is what a good portion of the members who participate in political threads actually want.

You think people are trained to avoid opinions? It´s right the opposite. Political junkies hunt differing opinions to win debate. How to pat each other and show superiority when you avoid opinions?

[theflashunc]

Trump has reached the highest levels of success in three of the most competitive fields in our world:

-NY Real Estate Developer, he owns billions of dollars in real estate in NY and elsewhere

-Televison/Entertainment, his show was on for 15 seasons and highly rated during several seasons

-Politics, without ever holding prior elected office he won the Presidency of the United States.....much to the chagrin of both parties


You may disagree with his politics, his persona, his gruffness, his hair color............but there is no way a reasonable person could honestly call him an ignoramus.


But more to the point of this portion of this discussion, you have a definite right to your opinion.

On real estate development, there's a track record for the Trump Organization of failing to deliver projects they're actually building. Projects they just license their name to for marketing purposes generally actually get built. Even then he was dealing with some rather scuzzy people, and all this would be clarified quite a bit if he ever decided to release his tax returns. The claim of billions of dollars in property is specious without any clear evidence backing it up. Pump and Trump

On TV. There's an anecdote from Jeff Zucker, then the head of NBC Entertainment, that kills me. After the first successful season of the Apprentice, Donald came in and demanded they renegotiate his contract based on the ratings. He was making about $60k an episode at the time. Donald requested $1 million. Zucker says they eventually agreed to a raise -- to $65k. Art of the Deal indeed.

Politics: Yes, he won a narrow electoral college victory that we now know was buttressed by widespread voter suppression in states like Wisconsin, and a comprehensive disinformation campaign run by Russian intelligence assets that most assuredly had their finger on the social media scale. He lost the popular vote by nearly 2.5 million votes. If he were running for any other office in the country, he'd have lost handily to someone who received more votes for the Presidency than anyone in US history. They just happened to be living in the wrong places thanks to our said system. Since then he's had no signature foreign policy or domestic accomplishments that have widespread American support, and not had an approval rating above 50% at any time in his Presidency.

Billions in real estate, hah. Show us the receipts. The analysis that put the Trump Org more at a $200 million enterprise were more rational.

[Dallas Tex]

......a comprehensive disinformation campaign run by Russian intelligence assets that most assuredly had their finger on the social media scale........

yawn on most of this, but help educate me on this one point. What did this 'disinformation campaign' look like? Likes on Facebook? Articles? Posts on FB? Any examples of this social media disinformation? How does the social media 'disinformation campaign' turn into votes at the ballot box?

Sincerely asking. I've been hearing these terms for a while and I'm not exactly sure what any of it looks like. Whats the path from a 'disinformation' post on Facebook to the ballot box. Thanks.

[HorsCat]

Glenn,

"Yawn" indeed. To the extent you are genuinely interested in educating yourself, here's a good place to start:

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

[mzilliox]

https://www.ndi.org/sites/default/fi...%20%281%29.pdf
How Disinformation Could Sway the 22 Election
How deepfakes and social media disinformation aim to undermine electio
Cybercrime Module 14 Key Issues: Information Warfare, Disinformation and Electoral Fraud

i didnt read all of these, because its not my question, but here are some places to start since you asked

[Dallas Tex]

Most of the links seem to be opinion pieces and the one .Gov link is heavily redacted. These terms & phrases get thrown around here quite frequently. Can someone that is 'all in' on the concept give me an example or two or a 10,000 foot view synopsis?

[HorsCat]

Most of the links seem to be opinion pieces and the one .Gov link is heavily redacted. These terms & phrases get thrown around here quite frequently. Can someone that is 'all in' on the concept give me an example or two or a 10,000 foot view synopsis?

Kinda weak. The redactions will not get in the way. Believe me.

[Sbti]

To the goobers.

You've been conned by a two bit casino pimp from Queens.

[Blue Jays]

"...How does the social media 'disinformation campaign' turn into votes at the ballot box?..."

The same folks panicking about a few Facebook posts originating from overseas are simultaneously fine with granting drivers licenses and voting rights to illegal immigrants storming our borders.

[Dallas Tex]

Kinda weak. The redactions will not get in the way. Believe me.

Let me rephrase that. I don't want to read 448 pages of a governmental report.

I skimmed and the only thing that I see is that the DNC server got hacked by the russians and private embarrassing emails were released. I understand that process, no one wants their private email discussions made public - it could be embarrassing or worse - and thereby turn into fewer votes at the ballot box.

Could someone explain the Social Media process and mechanism that starts with foreign entities and ends with votes ? Thanks

[Sbti]

Merry Christmas to the kids in cages who may never see their parents again.

Happy mutherfuckin Drumph New Year!

[choke]

Glenn,

"Yawn" indeed. To the extent you are genuinely interested in educating yourself, here's a good place to start:

https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf

I'll just drop this in here...

There is widespread concern that Russia and other countries have launched social-media campaigns designed to increase political divisions in the United States. Though a growing number of studies analyze the strategy of such campaigns, it is not yet known how these efforts shaped the political attitudes and behaviors of Americans. We study this question using longitudinal data that describe the attitudes and online behaviors of 1,239 Republican and Democratic Twitter users from late 2017 merged with non-public data about the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) from Twitter. Using Bayesian regression tree models, we find no evidence that interaction with IRA accounts substantially impacted distinctive measures of political attitudes and behaviors over a 1-mo period. We also find that interaction with IRA accounts were most common among respondents with strong ideological homophily within their Twitter network, high interest in politics,and high frequency of Twitter usage. Together, these findings suggest that Russian trolls might have failed to sow discord because they mostly interacted with those who were already highly polarized.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/ea...20116.full.pdf

[colker]

yawn on most of this, but help educate me on this one point. What did this 'disinformation campaign' look like? Likes on Facebook? Articles? Posts on FB? Any examples of this social media disinformation? How does the social media 'disinformation campaign' turn into votes at the ballot box?

Sincerely asking. I've been hearing these terms for a while and I'm not exactly sure what any of it looks like. Whats the path from a 'disinformation' post on Facebook to the ballot box. Thanks.

I will try. Social media and most of all, whatsup, works to relativize fact checking. Spread fake news while at the same time accuse professional media of being a tool of a secret cabal of olygarchs who dominate capitalism. Sounds familiar? It has been used since the dawn of the 19th century. Confuse the public mixing economics, lack of jobs, immigration and gender politics. Create a paranoid logic where hollywood stars, millionaire investor Soros and gender activists are all tools of anti america cabal. Post on FB along w/ fake news. Say all media is bought, corrupt aso "they" will never let the people know the real truth. Then comes along someone who is not "part of the establishment".. he is a guy who "tells it like it is". He is not afraid of being politically incorrect meaning he is openly, agressively misoginist, sexist and anti science..,because science means college and college means corrupt, cosmopolitan, decadent. Throw some money because money is good. It´s an old moralist and decrepit tale.. but surprisingly it worked on the most powerfull well informed and democratic nation on the planet.

[mzilliox]

how can a thinking human being not undertsand how misinformation influences thought prcesses and therefore elections? i mean you are human right? you use information to make choices right?
and of course they are opinion pieces, this isnt math, its not quantifiable. these are smart folks who study these things taking evidence and creating a story to read. so they stuy the effects of misinformation, but like anything, there is always more to learn. all we can do is our best, and approach with openess to reach hypothosis.

you shouldnt need any articles to understand how your own brain reacts to information, but perhaps check out some communist manifestos and reasearch the rise of a certain Adolf Hitler if you dont think misinformation is powerful.

lets talk about used cars. if you get bad information about a car from a used car salesman, you may make a bad choice and purchase a bad car. you may "vote" based on what you thought was true, but wasn't, therefore influencing your "vote" with misinformation. this is basic stuff man, very basic, why question this?

that there is not a quantifiable effect is obvious, how do you quantify the absolute effect of a lie, when not everyone believes it, some do, and some wilfully accpet it even though they know it to be false? but to say there is no effect of disinformation is to ignore the human experience. i assume you are all human...

and what does it matter? is it not enough it happens? does it not concern you that it happens? and that its a possibile thing?

why do so many people choose to disbeleive what experts study and come up with, skepticism is great, but discounting everything because its opinion is foolish, as we dont actually know much about anyhting at all and we certainly dont know everything there is to know about anything. shit, we dont even have the capacity to understand reality, we can only take cues and use our processing system to arrive at best answers, and the best scientists and studiers are never satisfied, they never believe a theory, because they are all imperfect, and there is always more we can learn about how we interact ith our worldll and how our brains react to stimuli. but alas, this is a new discussion about reality, psychology, and neuroscince. its for another time, even if it does have much to say about how humans react to disinformation.

we must all make efforts to educate ourselves and make choices that benefit everyone (or just yourself if thats your style). and I know Trump voters think they are voting for their interests, which is why this thread continues. the majority of us cannot see how the positives of (which have not been provided) voting for this man and all his deficincies could possibly outweigh any other option for anyone who sees themselves as a humanitarian concerned with all his brothers and sisters of the world and the betterment of their lives. or did i miss something about the human experience and thats no longer the goal?

[Dallas Tex]

how can a thinking human being not undertsand how misinformation influences thought prcesses and therefore elections? i mean you are human right? you use information to make choices right?

I'm a light social media user. I've never seen a news story on FB or Instagram. People actually get information used in voting decisions from Facebook? Would someone pull up an example of a 'foreign based disinformation' social media news story and link it here?