-- thank you John Kerry.., US Secretary of State...

[Dallas Tex]

Not for a LONG time. Israel (our bestest customer of arms in the world) can't even reach our shores with a nuke. The Jericho 3 would fall about 3000km short of New York, and that's with all the best help they can get from a willing ally. Iran would be in a slightly better boat than North Korea.

Well as vague as a 'long time' is as a measure of time, removing the sanctions will reduce that amount of time substantially. Once the United Nations sanctions are lifted there is very little chance of them being reintroduced. So when Iran strays from its agreement there will be basically no effective punitive measures.

[Dallas Tex]

Sorry, but the bus dropped me off in Afghanistan instead of Iran in 2011 where I spent a year away from my home and family trying to help that country get it's shit straight after we invaded it. I hope I accomplished something lasting in my small contributions, but fear that most likely I did not. If we had less people (I almost put another word in here but decided to keep it above board) like you forcing us into more of these entanglements, then perhaps less of us will be called on to head over to these places to 'fix' them.

So when was your trip to Iran? How much of your agenda did you get accomplished?

This piece even from Foreign Affairs a few years ago now, makes the most sense to me. I've read a couple different versions of the same arguement since and they still make sense. It's about the balance of power, and currently it is lacking. Just like Iraq before we took out Saddam.
Why Iran Should Get the Bomb | Foreign Affairs

I rarely post in the OT and especially about politics, so perhaps I should just avoid it altogether. Have a good one buddy.

Thanks for your service. I could not have more respect for folks that serve their country in the military.

Discussions such as these are not limited to folks that have visited these countries or to folks that have served in the military.

[quickag]

What 'realities of the region' am I missing? That most Iranians are nice?? That doesn't offset a government that performs mass public hangings, beheadings, and in general is a horrid oppressive human rights abuser.

What are you going to tell me? Ignore the public executions for adultery and it's beautiful! Just like Cape Cod with torture and hanging homosexuals.

Seriously, you're trying to tell me Iran is a wonderful place......how much reality must be sacrificed to achieve that level of denial and political correctness?

Don't put words in my mouth. It's childish and there's no reason for straw man arguments here in an objective discussion.

What you seem not to realize is that it's specifically because of people that have your myopic view of the world that we have ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Queda/Muj/Taliban, Boko Haram, etc. Neoconservatism is on its deathbed. We can only hope that the word will eventually only be muttered in spite.

I'm sure you're just as afraid of the sovereign citizens movement in Texas, right? Because you should be...they're a legitimate threat.

[Andrevich4]

Well as vague as a 'long time' is as a measure of time, removing the sanctions will reduce that amount of time substantially. Once the United Nations sanctions are lifted there is very little chance of them being reintroduced. So when Iran strays from its agreement there will be basically no effective punitive measures.

I may have agreed with some of your points before the framework came out. But looks like we got a surprisingly great deal. Hate to throw cold water on a lively discussion but a couple of things:

1. Best consumer of arms isn't Israel. They're way down the list. Arms Sales By The US And Russia - Business Insider
2. The end of sanctions doesn't apply to human rights and terrorism sanctions. Only nuclear sanctions. So whether they hang people or hold people without trial or support terrorist groups around the world isn't entirely relevant re: this deal.
3. The sanctions -- through a new UN security council resolution that all of the powers have agreed on and are writing before June's deadline -- will have a snapback provision. Iran violates, they automatically go back into effect.
4. The sanctions regime is breaking anyway. If no deal, there's nothing to really stop Asian countries from foreign direct investment. Look at how international support for the Cuban sanctions went.
5. Nuclear knowledge can't be destroyed despite the attempted assassination campaign of Iran's nuclear scientists. Worst case, Iran is just another power (like a couple of others among whom are several of our allies) who could go nuclear if they wanted to. This deal if implemented will reduce the breakout time from a couple of months to well over a year.
6. Reducing their nuclear sites from 4 to 1 is probably as good as you're going to get.
7. Iranian economic integration with the outside world is going to benefit everyone EXCEPT the Islamists at the top. Want to have a more responsible government there? Integration seems to work better than isolation. Look at Cuba, China, Vietnam, and the former USSR.

[Andrevich4]

More importantly... what about the future of the Iranian cycling scene? Are they going to dominate now that they can get out and race more or is their performance on the Asia Tour more to do with drug use?

[mainemike]

I have a John Kerry story: years ago I spent Summers on Martha's Vineyard. I was a young buck doing tree-work, landscaping, bartending, parties, beaches, boats, and girls. Anyway: there was an absolutely gorgeous girl working in a local shop. She was form Florida, new to the island, and insanely beautiful. Needless to say, I was interested. I made inroads, I was getting there. Details aside, I was just about in. So one eve I popped into a local shmancy restaurant where my buddies worked and I drank for free, and who do I see having dinner w/my dreamgirl? Mr Senator. I don't care what knd of bike he rides, if he solves world hunger, world peace, and whatever else it is politicians say they're gonna do - F him.

[XR2]

Gotta wonder if images like this show up on Iranian cycling websites. We all have our skeletons and embarrassing moments. BTW this was 1981 not 1921. If you look hard enough you'll find something to make anyone look bad.

[C.Dyer]

Stop with the hanging pictures please.

[bigbill]

I can't believe this thread is still open. It drives a wedge in a group that is likely aligned on the vast majority of issues and what is important in life. I like riding bikes, working on them, and spending time with people with the same likes. I have opinions on world events but I can't recall the last time they came up on a group ride.

[Christian Fox]

I can't believe this thread is still open. It drives a wedge in a group that is likely aligned on the vast majority of issues and what is important in life. I like riding bikes, working on them, and spending time with people with the same likes. I have opinions on world events but I can't recall the last time they came up on a group ride.

I agree, 100%. Most rational people agree on 99% of stuff, yet it's a few hot button issues that drive the wedge. And it's stupid. Threads like this always devolve into a pissing match. It starts with a dissenting view, then people claiming expertise or inside knowledge followed by links to some scholarly piece (pretty easy to find one that backs up any view) that reaffirms one's opinion. Then you get people referring to others as "fucktards" (who's childish now? enough with the -tard bullshit). Despite how smart you think you are, or how many likes you've received, you are not going to change anyone's mind about middle east politics on a bike forum.

[vertical_doug]

I agree, 100%. Most rational people agree on 99% of stuff, yet it's a few hot button issues that drive the wedge. And it's stupid. Threads like this always devolve into a pissing match. It starts with a dissenting view, then people claiming expertise or inside knowledge followed by links to some scholarly piece (pretty easy to find one that backs up any view) that reaffirms one's opinion. Then you get people referring to others as "fucktards" (who's childish now? enough with the -tard bullshit). Despite how smart you think you are, or how many likes you've received, you are not going to change anyone's mind about middle east politics on a bike forum.

1. No one makes you read the thread in OT
2. You are essentially requesting self-censorship which can be a bad thing where everything eventually is off limits. (like the juvenile nature of your screen name. Am i being ironic or a hypocrite?)

[Christian Fox]

1. No one makes you read the thread in OT
2. You are essentially requesting self-censorship which can be a bad thing where everything eventually is off limits. (like the juvenile nature of your screen name. Am i being ironic or a hypocrite?)

I never said the thread shouldn't have been started, I am just surprised it stayed open once it got a bit personal. And predicating an insult by writing "it's not personal" doesn't count. These political threads can be interesting to read, but when people get a little too passionate they tend to go off the rails a bit. They are also useful for profiling purposes; you can see what members are capable of different perspectives and those that like to lecture and speak down to people.

[sk_tle]

Judging by the recurrence of the subject I think Daltex's opinion is blinded by how gays are treated in Iran. In my opinion maintaining sanctions is the best way to maintain the cultural isolation that lead to these atrocities being still perpetrated in 2015.

[Cookietruck]

sounds like the nuclear treaty will only deal with sanctions that were for nuclear activity

also idk how accurate this is but apparently if someone gets sex reassignment surgery then they are free to marry whom they wouldn't be otherwise...mostly religious taboo stuff.
kinda sounds like people aren't executed for being gay as much daltex might be reading in some places...

LGBT rights in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Dallas Tex]

sounds like the nuclear treaty will only deal with sanctions that were for nuclear activity

also idk how accurate this is but apparently if someone gets sex reassignment surgery then they are free to marry whom they wouldn't be otherwise...mostly religious taboo stuff.
kinda sounds like people aren't executed for being gay as much daltex might be reading in some places...

LGBT rights in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Executions under Iran's sodomy/homosexual laws are quite common per Human Rights Watch. That may be a better source than Wikipedia. But I'm sure we all agree one legal execution under a country's anti-gay laws is too many. But I've read elsewhere about their 'workaround' of sexual reassignment surgery. Which is in fact quite common in Iran. The two seem to be at conflict with each other, who knows?

Anyway, I hoped this thread wouldn've died right after Mainemike's 'John Kerry cock-blocked me' story. Because frankly, I can't see anything ever being more entertaining than that. Thanks Mainemike I laughed out loud for 10 minutes. Great story!

[Dallas Tex]

I never said the thread shouldn't have been started, I am just surprised it stayed open once it got a bit personal. And predicating an insult by writing "it's not personal" doesn't count. These political threads can be interesting to read, but when people get a little too passionate they tend to go off the rails a bit. They are also useful for profiling purposes; you can see what members are capable of different perspectives and those that like to lecture and speak down to people.

These threads get heated, and sometime it may look personal. But it's the same bunch of guys participating (including me). I believe none of us take it personal. And I'll add I learn something that I didn't know every time. It's all in good fun.

[Mabouya]

I'm just hoping we can merge this thread with the "She Pleads Not Guilty" thread across the way. Lots of energy being expended in both of those, so it makes sense to put those two groups of folks in the same room - I'm sure the conversation is bound to be interesting.

[dogrange]

I have a friend who insists on talking about religion and politics in social gatherings, in an attempt to break the taboo against discussing these things in polite company. He does it in, I think, a good way and he personally is good at not getting emotional when tempers get going. Makes for an interesting dinner guest. Rubs most people wrong, but I personally enjoy having him around to spur conversation, and I always learn a lot from the group, provided that people will engage. He is now the dean of a prominent US law school.

[ZenNMotion]

Gotta wonder if images like this show up on Iranian cycling websites. We all have our skeletons and embarrassing moments. BTW this was 1981 not 1921. If you look hard enough you'll find something to make anyone look bad.

WTF- Running into an image like this on this forum is crossing the line- I can check in and out of the discussions but an image like this does not go away when I close the computer. The intended point is trite and the image serves no purpose----here, in a bike forum, hardly a place for activist's call to action---- other than denying the dignity of a human being used as a coarse prop to a discussion among the peanut gallery. Shit I really didn't need to see that.

[Nierman]

While the thread is open I'll share another John Kerry story. It's not as good as Mainemike's.

Back during the '04 campaign, a friend and captain of a local PD in the area's most affluent suburb told me the Kerry's people contacted the dept to get background checks on some top donors. They were looking for a residence to hold a fundraising dinner. So they start going down the list...

(paraphrasing)

We'd like to have it here.
PD: He's under investigation for mortgage fraud

Ok, then, how about this donor?
PD: They are under surveillance currently for possible drug dealing

Ok, then, this one?
PD: He's on your federal terror watch list.

Shit....
awkward silence...

They screened out 8 donors before they found one that was 'clean'.

Same visit, I recall folks upset because Theresa was trying to shut down some of the Country Club Plaza so she could go shopping.