bikes vs. beer

[Bob Ross]

I've also shaken the fad of IPA's

LOL! "Fad"?!?! I've been drinking American craft-brewed IPAs since 1993. I actually like the taste of American craft-brewed IPAs, and it is by far my favorite type of beer. If this "fad" ever goes away I sure hope it won't be as hard to find a good IPA as it was twenty years ago...i.e., not very.

btw, somewhat germane: I used to hate the taste of Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA...until I discovered it as an immediately-post-ride "recovery" drink. Now it's my first choice if I'm going to have a beer while still in my chamois. Context is everything.

[Diablo de Acero]

I ride with a little reminder of my fave.securedownload-1.jpg

[Dallas Tex]

When I lived in Netherlands my apartment was a stones throw from a bar that specialized in Belgium beers. I loved the good ones and could not get mouth around an IPA there after until I moved to Portland, where I fell in love IPAs and the typically American way of doing things, that is, going to the exterme.

Like hot sauce, or any american artform which has been taken to the exterme. IPAs shouldn't be based on their bitterness (hot sauces on their heat) but on the subtleness of flavor around the bitterness. Probably the same could be said about a lot of stuff including bikes. Hey thanks for letting me ramble.

Thanks for adding a bit of reality into the conversation.

[jerk]

We all need something terrible sometimes ...

hey! i was scaffolding a building and i was thirsty! (and there were 72 cases of that shit in the bike shop courtesy of kappy's liquors) at the end of the day- i'll drink anything.

[Saab2000]

I've got a $23 bottle of this sitting at home. It at least looks good. Founders doesn't suck. They have as many misses as hits but the hits are usually pretty tasty. And I can ride down there on my bike. I will really, really miss that if I move out of GRR. Makes me not want to move. And they have a bike rack and a lot of other people who ride to the bar.

Most expensive bottle of beer I've ever bought. It better be good. I need to find the appropriate glass for it.

That's a whole 'nuther topic - proper glassware. There's nothing that's more lame than going to a place which has snob beer and then having them pour it in a generic POS pint glass. Bars: If you're gonna bother getting the good beer, the distributors normally practically give away the glasses.

[lukasz]

Hope you don't have anywhere to go after you open that bottle. Founders is pretty awesome. I just finished off a 6 pack of Breakfast Stout.

[Saab2000]

Hope you don't have anywhere to go after you open that bottle. Founders is pretty awesome. I just finished off a 6 pack of Breakfast Stout.

This is possibly the first Founders I've ever bought in a bottle to bring home. I basically only consume it on site. But yeah, I won't be going anywhere after this one is open. It is very potent. Normally I don't like high alcohol beers, so this is a bit of an experiment. I do like Chimay (too much actually) and it is also high test stuff. So we'll see.

Founders sponsors a local mountain bike team. Most of my buddies are on it. I can't decide if they're a bunch of cyclists with a drinking problem or a bunch of drinkers with a cycling problem.

[maunahaole]

This is possibly the first Founders I've ever bought in a bottle to bring home. I basically only consume it on site. But yeah, I won't be going anywhere after this one is open. It is very potent. Normally I don't like high alcohol beers, so this is a bit of an experiment. I do like Chimay (too much actually) and it is also high test stuff. So we'll see.

Founders sponsors a local mountain bike team. Most of my buddies are on it. I can't decide if they're a bunch of cyclists with a drinking problem or a bunch of drinkers with a cycling problem.

If they are faster than you, they are cyclists.

[Bob Ross]

That's a whole 'nuther topic - proper glassware. There's nothing that's more lame than going to a place which has snob beer and then having them pour it in a generic POS pint glass.

My wife just got me this book for my birthday:
Attachment 49903

[Matthew Strongin]

My wife just got me this book for my birthday:
Attachment 49903

I may have to pick that up. My wife got me a variety of beer glasses for Hanukkah so I don't have to swig Chimay from the bottle anymore.

[Brandon White]

I may have to pick that up. My wife got me a variety of beer glasses for Hanukkah so I don't have to swig Chimay from the bottle anymore.

Ha. Get the set (which I've gotten before and two broke within a week) - or get some from Crate & Barrel - which have lasted me a few years and been well well well used.

[lavi]

In this order, mostly:
- Duvel
- Delerium Tremens
- Chimary (any color is fine)

- Russian River (most of it)
- Pliny, natch
- Blind pig
- the list goes on

- Lompoc (PDX local)
- C note IPA
- Kick Axe

- Double Mountain Clusterfuck
- DFH 60 min

That's enough for now. Don't forget the PBR (Portland's Best Refreshment) for my hipster street cred.

[joosttx]

In this order, mostly:
- Duvel
- Delerium Tremens
- Chimary (any color is fine)

- Russian River (most of it)
- Pliny, natch
- Blind pig
- the list goes on

- Lompoc (PDX local)
- C note IPA
- Kick Axe

- Double Mountain Clusterfuck
- DFH 60 min

That's enough for now. Don't forget the PBR (Portland's Best Refreshment) for my hipster street cred.

Lavi- is the New Old Lompoc still around? I was in Portland this fall and the bar on 23rd street had been torn down. Did they move? If so where? C-note IPA is my favorite IPA of all time.

I use to live across the street from New Old Lompoc.... Those were the days

[pdxharth]

Oh, this thread hits me right where it counts! I'm going to ramble, just to let you know up front.

In the mid-80s I discovered Orval and it forever changed my perspective, then in the late 80s I discovered Bells and it changed my life. Been drinking micro brews only ever since and I drink more beer than anyone else I know by far - not proud of this, just stating fact. Moved to Portland in '97 because of bike and beer culture, traveled to Belgium to sample the goods, and cap off every day with two or more. Always a keg in the house at cellar temperature and special beers aging on the shelves. Trust me, it's been a lot of brews over a 25 year span.

The comparison to bikes is very apt because both invoke so much passion and fanatical behavior. This does not equate with quality. Framebuilders get into it because they love bikes, and just like brewers often start out at home, get compliments from friends who don't know shit, and dream of going out on their own. It's passion, sure, but passion does not build good frames and it doesn't brew good beer. Time, commitment, experimentation, mentorship, repetition, and the ability to learn from mistakes are the common threads that make good, lasting framebuilders and brewers alike. These characteristics are not replaceable with any brewing or building course, with money, or with marketing or style - brands that rely on those things don't last, for the most part (with obvious exceptions). The real shit stands alone.

Now, even once a brewer gets to the point where he can brew one quality beer, that usually leaves a lot of mediocre beer on draft, unfortunately. Sure, the good ones can deviate from their best brews and create notable brews of other styles, but it is a lot to expect that pony to do a lot of tricks. One of my favorite IPAs is made by a notable local brewpub and is marvelous in its complexity and subtlety. Yet it is rare that pub puts out another beer that approaches that quality, and when it does it is usually an IPA of some sort, an extension of what they already do well.
The resemblance here to framebuilding is obvious - the builders who specialize and repeatedly make the same style of bike over and over, for years, are the ones who can achieve a level of high regard that is rare in the business. Same with beer.

In the US, we have a newly found beer culture that still lives in the macro-brew shadow, relatively speaking. In Europe, the brewing tradition is centuries old, and it is impossible to re-create that level of experience and expertise in only a few decades. But the ideas and effort are beautiful and worth celebrating by US beer drinkers, just as the plethora of framebuilders can be celebrated by bike lovers. As consumers, this exposure will hopefully make for generations of more educated consumers down the road, which will only help cement the expectations of quality in both bikes and beers. This is like the bike culture in Portland: sure, it's cool and fun, but it's still new and maturing and nowhere near the bike culture in Euro cities. Once it's no longer "hip" then we're getting somewhere... Same with beer. Once we are past the point where brewers are simply trying to outdo one-another with ibu's (and I am reminded daily of how much this still exists, unfortunately), then we will get to a point of more consistency and great beer being more readily available. The latest and greatest fads will die down because the remaining brewers will be more mature and the beer drinkers will be more informed. Once again, this sounds a lot like bike culture, doesn't it?

We're not there yet and won't be for some time, but the journey sure is fun! For now, I'm in Bend for one more night and off to the new Crux Fermentation Project to sample their wares. Not expecting much, but I'm sure I'll find something done well.

[TomW]

The problem with most US micro brews is that they overload it with hops and extreme bitterness is seen as a virtue. It's not

Some of Sammie's brews don't suck, like the spring and summer ales. But others are just too bitter. .

I cannot agree with this enough. Hailing from England/ Europe where a good beer is a sensitive clever thing I was excited when I visited Portland last year as it is meant to have some of the best craft beers around.

Pretty much 99% of them felt like my mouth was being roughly molested by a dirty carpet. They were thuggish, hey "let's add pumpkin, that's cool" beers. Absolutely horrible stuff.

Give me a German Weißbier or a proper ale anyday.

[TomW]

In the US, we have a newly found beer culture that still lives in the macro-brew shadow, relatively speaking. In Europe, the brewing tradition is centuries old, and it is impossible to re-create that level of experience and expertise in only a few decades. But the ideas and effort are beautiful and worth celebrating by US beer drinkers, just as the plethora of framebuilders can be celebrated by bike lovers. As consumers, this exposure will hopefully make for generations of more educated consumers down the road, which will only help cement the expectations of quality in both bikes and beers. This is like the bike culture in Portland: sure, it's cool and fun, but it's still new and maturing and nowhere near the bike culture in Euro cities. Once it's no longer "hip" then we're getting somewhere... Same with beer. Once we are past the point where brewers are simply trying to outdo one-another with ibu's (and I am reminded daily of how much this still exists, unfortunately), then we will get to a point of more consistency and great beer being more readily available. The latest and greatest fads will die down because the remaining brewers will be more mature and the beer drinkers will be more informed. Once again, this sounds a lot like bike culture, doesn't it?

We're not there yet and won't be for some time, but the journey sure is fun!

I really identify with this description of US beer culture. I still don't like many of the beers out there as they are one sided or overpowering but the experimentation is there. My real love is food and I always find New York: London as a comparison incredibly interesting. London, I would say, has better food largely because it can tap on Europe and its produce and bring all those influences together in one ultimate cosmopolitan city. However, trendwise it is so far behind New York it is untrue. Right now London is getting into ramen. Something like 10 years after New York.

An interesting thing about beer is also that internationally it is the Yanks who drive the homebrewing scene. So here in Seoul the beers are all US style and US flavoured/ strength. It is something I slightly struggle with. However, what is great is that there is a lot of experimentation and joy behind it which makes it a bit of an adventure. As opposed to European beer culture which focuses on tradition. However, if you ever get a chance I cannot recommend a short holiday to Cologne or Munich enough for some solid traditional drinking.

As an aside my wife just featured a couple of our good friends who run a young micro-brewery on a show she is doing in case you are bored...: Magpie Brewing Co. Warning, there are also two non-beer bits in it as well.

[JoB]

I thought Yuengling was.

Sam Adams is also the largest US owned brewery these days though, too.
Maybe sorta like Waterford or Indy Fab?

[JoB]

if you can get Franziskaner on tap in the US, it's as good as in Europe if they pour enough. The biggest problem with American tap beer IMO is that the variety is too high, so they lines aren't constantly moving and the lines get skanky. I have had some bottled German or Austrian Hefeweizen in the US that weren't very good ... OTOH, it is totally normal to serve a hefeweizen out of a bottle in Austria. It just doesn't sell as well and people enjoy rolling the bottle to get the yeast out of the bottom.

Trumer Pils is IMO a top Pils for Europe, it is really great.

Victory Prima Pils on the east coast. Trumer Pils on the west coast. Two of the best pilsners in the US.

I think even German wheat beers taste different here than in Germany due to travel time. But they're still good!

[aingeru]

I've never had a good US made wheat beer. Nobody here even comes close to Schneider Weisse or Paulaner. Those beers remain my favorites and will always be in season and in stock in my fridge.

Also, no fruit in the beer.

I can't drink Schneider Weisse, just to strong. Found Paulaner Weizen to be an elegant, classy beer. Maisel's Weisse and Herrnbräu weizen are another ones that I really enjoyed. You can see I lived in Bavaria for a couple of years LOL. My tip is a Swiss beer... Falken from Schaffhausen (really close to Germany though...) their Helles and Weizen top any german brand beers. Now if you tell me to pick up one, that will be Augustiner Edelstoff, hmmmm
For a pilsen, you need to go czech...they invented it, so they must know something...

[kyle]

Oh look more know it all bikers talking about things they don't know about.

Check out Spiteful Brewing just out in Chicago. Well made, with subtleness that their artwork wouldn't make you think of.