Virus thread, the political one.

[zachateseverything]

You make a good point. But the reality is slightly opposite. Even though Momofuku may be getting some loans to keep a float, UBER is getting many more forms of assistance. The trend you see above is going to be accelerated by current Government actions. You will end up accelerating the Ghost Kitchens with Uber Eats not stopping it.

I am more focused on the large ZOMBIE corporations. Because Ford is a fallen angel, they are one of the biggest beneficiaries of Friday's FED action. But FORD should have died in 2009, and was saved by a bailout. It will probably die now except for the FED supporting its debt. The irony is TESLA with little debt actually would whether this storm better than FORD. I would be okay with TESLA surviving and FORD dying of natural causes. That's how capitalism is suppose to work.

technically Ford didn't get a bailout. That was GM and Chrysler.

the problem with Ford (or similar) suddenly going out of business is that the aftershocks will take out a lot of other companies as well, even healthy ones. Ford shares suppliers with Tesla and does way more volume with them. If Ford goes out of business a lot of people not directly employed by Ford will be out of work and that's even going to have negative implications for Tesla.

I'm not saying that american businesses should always receive a "get out of jail free" card whenever there's a macroeconomic crisis, but throwing everyone to the wolves isn't a realistic option either. I support proposals like economic relief being tied to continued payroll.

[Saab2000]

You make a good point. But the reality is slightly opposite. Even though Momofuku may be getting some loans to keep a float, UBER is getting many more forms of assistance. The trend you see above is going to be accelerated by current Government actions. You will end up accelerating the Ghost Kitchens with Uber Eats not stopping it.

I am more focused on the large ZOMBIE corporations. Because Ford is a fallen angel, they are one of the biggest beneficiaries of Friday's FED action. But FORD should have died in 2009, and was saved by a bailout. It will probably die now except for the FED supporting its debt. The irony is TESLA with little debt actually would whether this storm better than FORD. I would be okay with TESLA surviving and FORD dying of natural causes. That's how capitalism is suppose to work.

Ford was the recipient of some federal loans IIRC but did not receive "bailout" grants in the same way GM and Chrysler did. Additionally, I don't even think grant money is money poorly spent. It saves tens of thousands of jobs.

My industry is a mature one and one which, if left to die, would not just sprout up overnight again. The nation's transportation infrastructure would be damaged for many years.

Don't get me wrong; I'm also at great odds with the abuses of these welfare programs of corporate billionaires. I see them railing against big government but none of them is refusing help when they need it most. But we need to clarify what these stimulus programs are designed to do: preserve tens or hundreds of thousands of jobs of ordinary Americans. To that end I'm OK with the "bailouts". These are extraordinary times and events (now more so than 2008) and require extraordinary measures by the federal government. I'm OK with that.

[vertical_doug]

technically Ford didn't get a bailout. That was GM and Chrysler.

the problem with Ford (or similar) suddenly going out of business is that the aftershocks will take out a lot of other companies as well, even healthy ones. Ford shares suppliers with Tesla and does way more volume with them. If Ford goes out of business a lot of people not directly employed by Ford will be out of work and that's even going to have negative implications for Tesla.

I'm not saying that american businesses should always receive a "get out of jail free" card whenever there's a macroeconomic crisis, but throwing everyone to the wolves isn't a realistic option either. I support proposals like economic relief being tied to continued payroll.

Okay, the other argument then is because GM and Chrysler received a bailout in 2009, capacity wasn't destroyed. So FORD suffered a competitive disadvantage from the ZOMBIE GM/Chrysler and now FORD needs the bailout. There is no free lunch... You cannot keep privatising gains and socializing losses.

[Saab2000]

technically Ford didn't get a bailout. That was GM and Chrysler.

the problem with Ford (or similar) suddenly going out of business is that the aftershocks will take out a lot of other companies as well, even healthy ones. Ford shares suppliers with Tesla and does way more volume with them. If Ford goes out of business a lot of people not directly employed by Ford will be out of work and that's even going to have negative implications for Tesla.

I'm not saying that american businesses should always receive a "get out of jail free" card whenever there's a macroeconomic crisis, but throwing everyone to the wolves isn't a realistic option either. I support proposals like economic relief being tied to continued payroll.

Amen. Beat me to it.

[zachateseverything]

Okay, the other argument then is because GM and Chrysler received a bailout in 2009, capacity wasn't destroyed. So FORD suffered a competitive disadvantage from the ZOMBIE GM/Chrysler and now FORD needs the bailout. There is no free lunch... You cannot keep privatising gains and socializing losses.

Actually, Ford didn't suffer a competitive disadvantage. GM and FCA were subject to oversight and restrictions that Ford was not. Ford also received the tangible benefit of not seeing the entire automotive supply chain explode and send us into a second great depression. There's a large number of real 'mericans that are buying F-150's over Rams and Silverados specifically because of the bailouts. I strongly recommend that you read up on this stuff. When you're getting basic information wrong it really hurts your credibility.

If a business firm is going under because of mismanagement and aggressive risks I have no problem with letting them go under. but when an entire sector of the economy is going under simultaneously because of macroeconomics and not the decisions companies were actually making that goes out the window. "Don't socialize the losses" is a great talking point but fundamentally will launch us into a depression.

Also, why are you putting random words in all caps?

[vertical_doug]

Also, why are you putting random words in all caps?

Slightly being lazy, slightly being weaselly. You called me out. I see your points. I concede. You make the better argument.

[72gmc]

Uber Eats-backed ghost kitchens

This feels like one of the potential ironies of this crisis. Uber and its founder deserved to go extinct. But with timing that felt far too late, the board replaced the founder with a functioning adult and then faked it until they could make it a somewhat diversified enterprise. Now they may be poised to capitalize.

[guido]

He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus - The New York Times

"An examination reveals the president was warned about the potential for a pandemic but that internal divisions, lack of planning and his faith in his own instincts led to a halting response."

[guido]

James Comey: We know what good leadership in a crisis looks like. This isn’t it. | Washington Post

"The Queen of England recently spoke to her people about the novel coronavirus pandemic and offered a master class in leadership.

She was calm, dignified, and above all, candid about the present, yet optimistic about the future. These are very hard times, she said, but we have been through hard times together in the past, and we will be okay if we unite around the values that have long sustained us.

“Using the great advances of science and our instinctive compassion to heal, we will succeed, and that success will belong to every one of us. We should take comfort that while we may have more still to endure, better days will return. We will be with our friends again. We will be with our families again. We will meet again.”

People crave leadership when they are afraid. But leading well during a crisis does not mean “faking it so people don’t freak out.” It doesn’t mean promising people all will be fine or lecturing them for being frightened."

[guido]

When you drown the government in the bathtub, people die | Washington Post

"... But then came the tea party, the anti-government conservatism that infected the Republican Party in 2010 and triumphed with President Trump’s election. Perhaps the best articulation of its ideology came from the anti-tax activist Grover Norquist, who once said: “I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.”

They got their wish. What you see today is your government, drowning — a government that couldn’t produce a rudimentary test for coronavirus, that couldn’t contain the pandemic as other countries have done, that couldn’t produce enough ventilators for the sick or even enough face masks and gowns for health-care workers."

[caleb]

You make a good point. But the reality is slightly opposite. Even though Momofuku may be getting some loans to keep a float, UBER is getting many more forms of assistance. The trend you see above is going to be accelerated by current Government actions. You will end up accelerating the Ghost Kitchens with Uber Eats not stopping it.

I am more focused on the large ZOMBIE corporations. Because Ford is a fallen angel, they are one of the biggest beneficiaries of Friday's FED action. But FORD should have died in 2009, and was saved by a bailout. It will probably die now except for the FED supporting its debt. The irony is TESLA with little debt actually would whether this storm better than FORD. I would be okay with TESLA surviving and FORD dying of natural causes. That's how capitalism is suppose to work.

I think I agree with everything you're saying here.

I may have read more into the Galloway article than he really said. What I took him to be saying (perhaps wrongly) was that letting large businesses go bust would create opportunity for new entrants, like his hustling immigrant grandfather that opens the article. Maybe that's not what he meant to say.

I also entirely agree that stock valuations need to be allowed to come back to earth instead of constantly being backstopped by Congress and the Fed. But the fact that young people are buying into a market that's 2x the earnings multiple their parents bought at doesn't strike me as one of the world's burning inequities, but rather something of an intergenerational inequity among the investor class, which is to say a difference of degree of privilege.

I have no idea how to do it, but if we're going to see massive disruption in the economy, I'd at least like to see it open up the opportunity for someone with nothing to start a small business, be his own boss, and make a living at it so that it's more than buying himself a job with his wife's paycheck and health plan. The question that concerns me isn't really the relative tradeoff between Ford and Tesla dividends, or between two generations of investors, but rather between really large businesses monopolizing a great deal of opportunity and the outsider small timers spread around the country who could sure use some of those market openings to make their lives better.

[Mark Kelly]

"The Queen of England recently spoke to her people about the novel coronavirus pandemic and offered a master class in leadership.

She was calm, dignified, and above all, candid about the present, yet optimistic about the future.

I'm no monarchist* but for someone who turns 94 next week she's remarkably with it. It is worth remembering she was Churchill's Queen for his last premiership, apparently she greatly admired him and seems to have learnt something.

Another leader who has done a remarkable job in this crisis is New Zealand's Jacinta Ahern. Perhaps it's a woman thing.




* Republican means something else over here. If you mob keep it up we might have to think of another name.

[guido]

Perhaps it's a woman thing.

Unfortunately we pissed away our chance for a sensible calm woman with a plan for this and many other challenges of the day and the future...

[BBB]

Perhaps it's a woman thing.

This is partially true. Contrast the empathy shown by Arden in the face of a crisis (Christchurch shootings) compared to Morrison in the face of the bushfires. For someone who goes out of his way to put his Christianity up in lights (albeit a kooky monetised version of Christianity) Morrison displayed very little empathy in the face of a devastating event.

It is also competence. Business failures, personality defects and egotism is not exactly the best qualifications for leadership. Hence Trump has bumbled his way through his Presidency and is bumbling in his response to a pandemic. The Queen has been trained for civil service from a young age and was thrust into a leadership role early when her father passed away. It hasn't always been great (the response to Dianna's death), but a calm measured response in the face of a crisis is certainly better than berating journalists and pushing an unproven drug or lying about what or wasn't said.

[Mark Kelly]

Oops, you'd think I could get her name right.

[ides1056]

He Could Have Seen What Was Coming: Behind Trump’s Failure on the Virus - The New York Times

"An examination reveals the president was warned about the potential for a pandemic but that internal divisions, lack of planning and his faith in his own instincts led to a halting response."

Restarting America Means People Will Die. So When Do We Do It? - The New York Times



Oscar Wilde said a cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Even he might be at a loss for words now.

But I expect he knew just how feckless humans can be.

[mzilliox]

Restarting America Means People Will Die. So When Do We Do It? - The New York Times



Oscar Wilde said a cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Even he might be at a loss for words now.

But I expect he knew just how feckless humans can be.

my wife and i are working with local government to figure this very thing out here in southern oregon. There is a meeting coming up where we hope to learn much in terms of whats next, how to restart, how to manage society going forward, how to get those with low risk back into the workforce, how to keep the hospitals on alert and reasonably staffed, how to get small businesses doors open, how to plan for potential closures of essential services like hospitals, postal service, etc etc.

it will be an interesting journey, and im glad here we are getting involved, because leaving it to others includes too much uncertainty when you are a rational human with ideas and solutions

[guido]

The Preexisting Condition in the Oval Office | The New Yorker

"From the start, the Trump Administration has waged war on science and expertise, making a great nation peculiarly vulnerable to the foreseeable public-health calamity of the coronavirus."

[ericpmoss]

[Bruce Day]

If as some of you contend, the contemporary Democrat party is vastly different than the Democrat party of Lincoln’s time, then perhaps they should act differently.

I am out here in fly over country, the area derided by the west coast and northeast coast elites as inhabited by deplorables , despicables, the uneducated , the rural buffoons, red necks and those who cling to their guns and religion in the words of the Democrat Messiah . We have been viewed as quaint inhabitants with customs and traditions unlike the sophisticates back east and way west. The states around here went about 55 percent Republican in 2016, my guess is that it will be higher this time. If anything, the way that Democrats have treated the president elected by us has hardened the resolve. Trump is not the perfect person , he is not one of us , but at least he treats us with some respect.