It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[Corso]

We don't need new immigration laws. We need fewer immigration laws.

Feel free to contact Nancy Pelosi and the rest of your California elected officials to take down the border security between Southern California and Mexico. Is there a large movement to do this? I'm on the other coast, perhaps I missed it.

I guess I also missed the new legislation that has been put forward in congress by Schiff and co, reforming immigration laws by reducing them. I guess they've been busy doing other things.

[theflashunc]

Feel free to contact Nancy Pelosi and the rest of your California elected officials to take down the border security between Southern California and Mexico. Is there a large movement to do this? I'm on the other coast, perhaps I missed it.

I guess I also missed the new legislation that has been put forward in congress by Schiff and co, reforming immigration laws by reducing them. I guess they've been busy doing other things.

I'll worry about Nancy as soon as we dismantle ICE and get children out of cages. The hierarchy of cruelty we exhibit to immigrants is a long list before we get to the Speaker of the House.

And yeah, trying to get a traitor to the nation and wanna be fine store dictator out of the white house certainly would take priority when he's threatening the national security of the country.

This country survived just fine letting anyone in who wanted to come for over a century. Certainly can't be any worse than what we're doing today. Can't wait for the generation of Central American terrorists we're creating through our inhumane treatment at the border.

[thollandpe]

I guess I also missed the new legislation that has been put forward in congress by Schiff and co, reforming immigration laws by reducing them. I guess they've been busy doing other things.

They certainly have been busy. There are over 400 bills for you to review. All passed by the House and stalled in the Senate. Mitch McTurtle: slow and steady, or simply immobilized, wins the race. 300-500 bills passed a year, down to 70. One thing’s for sure, Mitch is not afraid of collateral damage.

• Violence Against Women Act
• Veterans’ access to child care
• 9/11 victim compensation fund
• National Flood Insurance Program
• Universal background checks
• Net neutrality
• Federal minimum wage
• Expanding health coverage
• Lower prescription drug prices
• Anti-corruption
• Pre-existing conditions
• NATO support

[Corso]

300-500 bills passed a year, down to 70. One thing’s for sure, Mitch is not afraid of collateral damage.

Thank you, I didn't know the number was that low. I trust your information. Insert sound of me eating crow...

[Clean39T]

some thoughts, light thoughts, they mean nothing, they are just free ideas.

borders are nothing but figments of our imaginations, constructs, only as real as we decide.

your parents humped here so you get the world, their parents humped over some imaginary line, so they have to do some special song and dance for the same things you get?

its good to be lucky

you are no more human than anyone else

how am i not myself

This thread quickly takes me to an even deeper darker place.

Can we do the ball thing now?

[thollandpe]

Thank you...

Right back at you. Let’s keep it like arguing like family.

Except for Uncle Bob. They don’t make tin foil thick enough to make him a hat.

[zachateseverything]

Thanks for giving your opinion on something you know little about. Move to Massachusetts, go to the city council meetings I go to, speak to teachers, the school department, the mayor, president of the housing authority, teachers, police and parents who I'm friends with - of the largely Democratic state I live in.
Always the conservatives fault? Nonsense.

Speak for your own city or towns situation, do not attempt to lecture me on mine.

If you spoke with those people you would know that their budget's are getting tighter mostly because the state appropriation formula hasn't done a good job of accounting for increasing healthcare costs. It's not because illegal immigrants are flooding school districts. But let's put some actual numbers to this. According to Pew Research Center, about 6% of K-12 students in your state have illegal parents (and many of those children are US citizens). That's 1 extra kid in a class of 28. That's barely going to affect staffing levels in a high school.

[marley]

The increase of 1 kid per 28 is an average across the state. Some cities are have seen a more significant increase in new residents and their dependents which could account for 4-5 kids increase but that coupled with the extra strain for new resources such as Special Ed and ESL teachers you can seen how this can rapidly impact a school district/community, especially if for the majority of the new residents English is not their primary language.

And you are right in that rising health care cost and very generous retirement benefits for city employees (many of whom are retiring as soon as they are able - baby boomers) are crippling the budgets of small towns and medium sized cities.

That being said large/sudden increases of new residents occur in certain locations for a reason - because they are historically cities that were built by immigrants so this should not be a surprise to those who live in these locations and if it is then perhaps you do not know your history and may I suggest you look around your fair city and see how the diversity as enriched your community.

[ides1056]

l live at the other end of the State from Corso. What I know is that there were a number of refugees from Puerto Rico who came up to go to school.

And though this is thread drift:

Poor Bill. He doesn't like how those presidential kneepads look.

[Matthew Strongin]

l live at the other end of the State from Corso. What I know is that there were a number of refugees from Puerto Rico who came up to go to school.

And seeing as how those refugees are American citizens, I'd imagine everyone is totally cool with them expanding class sizes beyond planned budgets.

[Corso]

If you spoke with those people you would know that their budget's are getting tighter mostly because the state appropriation formula hasn't done a good job of accounting for increasing healthcare costs. It's not because illegal immigrants are flooding school districts. But let's put some actual numbers to this. According to Pew Research Center, about 6% of K-12 students in your state have illegal parents (and many of those children are US citizens). That's 1 extra kid in a class of 28. That's barely going to affect staffing levels in a high school.

So let me understand this: I site examples of first person experiences, speaking face to face with City council members, the school committee, the mayor, etc etc, and you counter with a Pew Research Center report?

"Actual numbers" vs real life experiences? And how did they get those actual numbers, when no one drawing a paycheck from the state can inquire about citizenship? Not teachers, not the police, not the housing authorities, etc. It's all guesswork, no hard numbers of the citizenship situation of the students. No child is true away (as it should be) but budgets are effected. Fact.

I'll add more to this. Our public libraries are becoming after school day care centers. Kids walk to them after getting out of school, and hang until they close or get picked up. When some parents were asked what was going on-as the pattern is highly noticeable, the non-english speaking parent would hand the librarian the business card of their immigration lawyer. The libraries decided to start an after school meal program to feed the kids, since they were going to be there. And yes, translators had to be contracted. Funds had to be diverted form other areas of the Library system.How do I know this? My wife was the President of the Library Board of Trustees.

The immigration situation is a part of the budget problem, I'm not sayin it's the total cause. But please, stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

The next time I have dinner with my neighbor, (who is responsible for the school admissions program) I'll tell her not to sweat it, as a Pew Report and a guy on a web forum said there's nothing to worry about.

[Corso]

l live at the other end of the State from Corso. What I know is that there were a number of refugees from Puerto Rico who came up to go to school.

And though this is thread drift:

Poor Bill. He doesn't like how those presidential kneepads look.

I grew up in Springfield, your side of the state. Twice in my grammar school days, the same thing happened in 2 different years, by 2 different teachers: When were doing student heritage stuff, I'd present to the class I was half Italian and half Mexican. The teacher(s) then told me & the class: "Oh no you must be mistaken, I think you mean Puerto Rican."

I assured them I know what I was. They both wanted to know if I was "sure"...

Many Puerto Ricans in Swingfield in the 70s, not many Mexicans.

[zachateseverything]

So let me understand this: I site examples of first person experiences, speaking face to face with City council members, the school committee, the mayor, etc etc, and you counter with a Pew Research Center report?

"Actual numbers" vs real life experiences? And how did they get those actual numbers, when no one drawing a paycheck from the state can inquire about citizenship? Not teachers, not the police, not the housing authorities, etc. It's all guesswork, no hard numbers of the citizenship situation of the students. No child is true away (as it should be) but budgets are effected. Fact.

I'll add more to this. Our public libraries are becoming after school day care centers. Kids walk to them after getting out of school, and hang until they close or get picked up. When some parents were asked what was going on-as the pattern is highly noticeable, the non-english speaking parent would hand the librarian the business card of their immigration lawyer. The libraries decided to start an after school meal program to feed the kids, since they were going to be there. And yes, translators had to be contracted. Funds had to be diverted form other areas of the Library system.How do I know this? My wife was the President of the Library Board of Trustees.

The immigration situation is a part of the budget problem, I'm not sayin it's the total cause. But please, stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

The next time I have dinner with my neighbor, (who is responsible for the school admissions program) I'll tell her not to sweat it, as a Pew Report and a guy on a web forum said there's nothing to worry about.

The plural of anecdote is still not data.

[Corso]

The plural of anecdote is still not data.

Believe what you will. Or not. It won't change what happens here.

I guess my "anecdotes" under oath in a court of law is called eye witness testimony.

And I believe data had Hillary winning the last time too. How'd that work out?

"Data" said no way LeMond could make up 50 seconds to beat Fignon in the final time trial too.

[Matthew Strongin]

Believe what you will. Or not. It won't change what happens here.

I guess my "anecdotes" under oath in a court of law is called eye witness testimony.

And I believe data had Hillary winning the last time too. How'd that work out?

"Data" said no way LeMond could make up 50 seconds to beat Fignon in the final time trial too.

Those were predictions that leveraged available data points, not "data" as in a collection of facts. Predictions can be wrong because they are based on running data (facts) through models that may or may not be flawed. Data can also be misinterpreted or misrepresented. But data are facts.

Testimony, on the other hand, is a singular perspective from an eye or expert witness. It is not fact. A collection of similar and corroborating testimony may support a presumption/hypothesis/theory/accusation/etc. and they may be partially or completely factual (depending on the witness). But they are not inherently factual. But, yeah, that won't change anything here.

[theflashunc]

So let me understand this: I site examples of first person experiences, speaking face to face with City council members, the school committee, the mayor, etc etc, and you counter with a Pew Research Center report?

"Actual numbers" vs real life experiences? And how did they get those actual numbers, when no one drawing a paycheck from the state can inquire about citizenship? Not teachers, not the police, not the housing authorities, etc. It's all guesswork, no hard numbers of the citizenship situation of the students. No child is true away (as it should be) but budgets are effected. Fact.

I'll add more to this. Our public libraries are becoming after school day care centers. Kids walk to them after getting out of school, and hang until they close or get picked up. When some parents were asked what was going on-as the pattern is highly noticeable, the non-english speaking parent would hand the librarian the business card of their immigration lawyer. The libraries decided to start an after school meal program to feed the kids, since they were going to be there. And yes, translators had to be contracted. Funds had to be diverted form other areas of the Library system.How do I know this? My wife was the President of the Library Board of Trustees.

The immigration situation is a part of the budget problem, I'm not sayin it's the total cause. But please, stop arguing for the sake of arguing.

The next time I have dinner with my neighbor, (who is responsible for the school admissions program) I'll tell her not to sweat it, as a Pew Report and a guy on a web forum said there's nothing to worry about.

The best example you've got of the tragedy of immigration is kids spending extra time at the library? God forbid these children congregate in the centers where there's all this knowledge to be had!

[bcm119]

Believe what you will. Or not. It won't change what happens here.

I guess my "anecdotes" under oath in a court of law is called eye witness testimony.

And I believe data had Hillary winning the last time too. How'd that work out?

"Data" said no way LeMond could make up 50 seconds to beat Fignon in the final time trial too.

Data has a way of gaining mistrust due to the way journalists misinterpret them, and/or the way people misinterpret what journalists write. Fivethirtyeight gave Trump a 29% chance of winning in 2016 according to their model output. Media interpreted that as Trump having almost no chance of winning, and people interpreted that as Hillary already won. I knew several people who didn't bother voting because of this. If the weather forecast said 30% chance of a shower, would you be shocked if it rained? No, but people were shocked when Trump won because they relied on misinterpreted data. And then they said the data was wrong, and no one can trust data.

[zachateseverything]

Data has a way of gaining mistrust due to the way journalists misinterpret them, and/or the way people misinterpret what journalists write. Fivethirtyeight gave Trump a 29% chance of winning in 2016 according to their model output. Media interpreted that as Trump having almost no chance of winning, and people interpreted that as Hillary already won. I knew several people who didn't bother voting because of this. If the weather forecast said 30% chance of a shower, would you be shocked if it rained? No, but people were shocked when Trump won because they relied on misinterpreted data. And then they said the data was wrong, and no one can trust data.

Exactly. Days before the election Nate Silver wrote an article that basically said Trump is a normal polling error away from winning the election. It's not likely but it's well within the realm of possibilities.

[Corso]

But they are not inherently factual. But, yeah, that won't change anything here.

I should have been more specific: when I said "here" I meant in my City- as opposed to hear on the Salon.

Speaking of, I wonder why Zac didn't ask Matthew for data to support his statement:
"I've spent most of my life living in arguably the most immigrant dense community in the US and I don't know anyone who thinks of immigrants as being drains on school or housing budgets."

Zac, another anecdote? Where is Matts' data to support his statements?

I do love the FACT that time after time MY postings require data and sources, while others go unchallenged.

[Corso]

The best example you've got of the tragedy of immigration is kids spending extra time at the library? God forbid these children congregate in the centers where there's all this knowledge to be had!

God forbid you miss the point entirely.