Yes
No
This thread is starting to get nuts.
Vaccination and wearing a mask is common sense and not a political statement one way or the other. It's not about freedom of speech or "rights".
Presumably we all want to get back to something approaching "normal", or circa 2019, at some point in the near future.
You clearly don't like it here. Why stay? Many of us on this forum use it as a virtual outlet to hang out because we don't see each other often enough in real life. Free speech has nothing to do with you being able to state an opinion on a web forum with freedom from an opposing viewpoint. And the reason people dislike cyclists has nothing to do with a web forum debate on masks and vaccination. If you want to become part of the community here, I would recommend you spend a lot more time outside the political threads. But if posts like this continue to be how you spend your time, I really don't know why you bother.
"I guess you're some weird relic of an obsolete age." - davids
General comment not in response to Matt or anyone else's:
I often don't understand Beetnik's posts at first or second read, so sometimes I have to read and reread what he's saying to understand how the statistics he has posted relate to the comments he makes. And then also to understand the comments. The graphs very often defeat me (damn you graphic artist graphing grad students!) But I think he is doing a good job at least trying to line up some of his questions alongside the data points that perplex him the most. And he appears to be reading more than anyone I know on this topic, so even when people disagree with him or with his sources, they at least have to do some reading of their own in order to respond. And thinking. Or rely on their expertise in the field, and I know we have some people here involved in this epidemic daily. I see all this as a win-win here.
I've been following this ongoing series of conversations in New York Magazine. I've found them interesting. And while they are not truly saying anything revolutionary, they appear to cut through some of the fuzzy math involved in things like "90% effective" and so forth. Also a bit fewer graphs and the ones they have I can figure out what is on the X and Y axis. Doesn't mean they are correct or accurate or represent the ultimate truth. Anyway, if you haven't already been poaching articles on New York Magazine in August, you should be able to read this. Like I said, I thought it was interesting. The rest you can decide on for yourself.
I haven’t ridden my bike in well over a year so I probably don’t even qualify as a cyclist anymore.
But my martini intake is well above average.
I like to come here sometimes to listen to the chatter both the sensible and the batshit crazy.
That’s what makes the world interesting.
I wear a mask and I got a shot. It really wasn’t that hard and I didn’t grow flippers or a second head.
Arguing for the sake of arguing is just silly.
And Sen. Lindsey Graham tests positive. Vaccinated in December.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ugh-infection/
Here’s some real-life fluid dynamics for you.
Put on a dust mask (not a respirator that’s been tested for fit, just a humble dust mask) and have at it for 15 minutes with an orbital sander on a piece of wood, painted sheet metal, whatever.
Then blow your nose, note the effluent.
Then have at it again for 15 minutes, blow your nose, report back with the results.
Trod Harland, Pickle Expediter
Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin
Trod Harland, Pickle Expediter
Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin
Kids, aren't there a couple of other threads where some of the latest chatter can go?
Isn't this one about vaccines?
Chikashi Miyamoto
First time in a while I'm proud of NYC. Requiring vaccination before gaining admittance to a gym, restaurant or show is the right way to go. Between this and requiring health care workers and businesses mandating vaccinations we'll put this behind us. About time! -Mike G
A dust mask is far more hermetic than the average mask people are wearing these days. If you want to do the test with the average mask, worn by the average American, you'll find a healthy amount of sawdust up your nose when you take it off. Plus, when you take it off, guess what? Saw dust on your face now.
If gov wants to provide n95 masks, and people sanitize every single time they touch something, along with 6ft apart, then that would be a different story. But the surgical and fabric masks that the overwhelming majority of people wear, and the manner they are worn, are pretty much worthless- hot spot places that never went unmasked like DC, NYC, and LA all prove it. Might as well mandate magic fairy dust. It's a dumb window dressing that clearly doesn't work.
Again, real world vs. make believe.
I like all the pretty lugs!
That I don't even remotely agree with most of your opinions is a small issue. You seem to take the internet far more seriously that I do I guess. I find it mildly cathartic to argue different opinions, and also mildly amusing to see how extremely unaccepting and intolerant the modern liberal is of anything "other". Just so much fear of everything.
The messaging can give you whiplash. From Michael Thomas Osterholm, American epidemiologist, Regents Professor, and Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota who on November 9 was named a member of President-elect Joe Biden's COVID-19 Advisory Board:
oster1.jpg
oster2.jpg
Interestingly, he doesn't address surgical mask efficacy. But this messaging on vaccines is legit:
We have three groups of people today. They are the Vaccine Affirmative. These are the people that drove 120 miles in February snow storms to find vaccine in a clinic in some remote town. They couldn't wait to get it.
Then the Vaccine Hesitant. The group that at this point they have still legitimate concerns. This isn't a licensed vaccine. "I am a pregnant woman." "I am a member of the black community who's been experimented upon by the government." "And this was Operation Warp Speed and it is not a licensed vaccine." All really legitimate questions.
Then there is the third group. The Vaccine Hostile. These are people who under no conditions will be vaccinated in any way against their will. And they are a group that in many cases don't even believe the Pandemic is real, etc. The Vaccine Hostile, we're never going to get.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-an...-think-bglhwy/
It appears that until the FDA issues an EUA for one of the vaccines (likely in the next few months) they will not be required to exhibit proof of vaccination, nor will they be barred from entry.
I understand the issues many have with such a mandate, but the message is clear: no one will force you to get vaccinated, but if you wish to participate in activities of society in social or communal settings, you will need to do so. This is no different than public schools requiring vaccinations for children - you can choose to go elsewhere, should you opt out.
"Do you want ants? Because that's how you get ants."
Josh Simonds
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