It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[davids]

Proponents of the popular vote frequently wish to flood the United States with illegal immigrants and manipulate the motor voter system.
No thanks. The United States prefers that our POTUS candidates reach all four corners of our nation and appeal to lawful citizen voters.

Please stop it with counter-factual bullshit.

Why the Electoral College? It's pretty straightforward and goes back to the USA's founding. It balances the popular vote with state's rights. It was originally proposed that the Senate elect the President. The final plan had each state selecting Electors (independent of the Senate.) For a while states' legislatures chose the electors. By mid-19th century states based their electors vote on the results of that state's popular elections, on a winner-take-all basis. Only Nebraska and Maine deviate from that, with their electors allocated by congressional district.

You don't like this system? Well then, work to change it. But please don't say it's unfair. The rules are well known, and Trump's campaign legitimately won by using them.

You like the system? Please don't say it creates consensus. That's demonstrably false.

[mjbabcock]

Not sure how I missed the “illegal immigrant” comment, but trolling the forum with shit like that ought to get you kicked out. It’s racist, blatantly false, incendiary, and insincere. If this were a ride, you’d keep finding the need to close gaps between you and the guy ahead of you...it’s almost like they were creating those gaps to mess with you. Then when you’re at the front you’d be floating out there all by yourself.

[mzilliox]

its odd that the economy has shifted the population to areas of greater density, because jobs and schools. You have a candidate who is currently banking his success on jobs. but where are these jobs? in cities. so every time you make "jobs" or employment better, more people move away from the less dense populated areas to more dense. so you make the electoral college less significant and less fair every time jobs get better, which is what republicans are running on. what a strange situation this creates. as you help the constituents in these "underrepresented areas" they move to places where they can live. this dilutes representation even more. The electoral college makes no real sense any more. it better represents cows than humans.

when people move to the city for these jobs, do they become democrats? were they republicans out there in the country, but now they are city folks, vote democrat?... maybe, as they actually now have to live with other humans and interact with them, so they find out this is a more humane way forward, and that long term solutions for everyone are better than a tiny fix for me.

So if california texas and NY have all the jobs and people, the government is campaigning on jobs, people are moving to places with jobs, why are we not modifying our voting system to keep up with the massive change in demographics? this seems out of touch with reality.

you mention the rule of the majority, but is it not worse to be under the rule of minority? like much worse? like its not democratic at all to be ruled my a minority? why on earth would we protect or even hold high this antiquated system that allows less peoples opinions to count more?

yes, its in place so a strategy to deal with it should be also in place, but cmon, theres nothing at all fair or democratic about the system anymore, and that become more true every day as population density is necessarily changed by the prospect of jobs.

[mzilliox]

Not sure how I missed the “illegal immigrant” comment, but trolling the forum with shit like that ought to get you kicked out. It’s racist, blatantly false, incendiary, and insincere. If this were a ride, you’d keep finding the need to close gaps between you and the guy ahead of you...it’s almost like they were creating those gaps to mess with you. Then when you’re at the front you’d be floating out there all by yourself.

hes mentioned immigration as his trump thing before, this is no surprise. Its one of the reasons trump supporters still exist, some irrational fear of other directed toward immigration. like trump has any sensible solution to the issue.

[Sbti]

like trump has any sensible solution to the issue.

What are talking about? There's more funding for the border wall in the new budget announced yesterday. You don't think it will work? Oh, and on everything else, according to Sidekick Suzy(she'll have what Moscow Mitch is having), he's learned his lesson.

[jclay]

Proponents of the popular vote frequently wish to flood the United States with illegal immigrants and manipulate the motor voter system.
No thanks.

It's this kind of BS garbage that sometimes propels me towards intemperate remarks.

What I've consistently seen, here and elsewhere, is that those who oppose people like Trump offer cogent rationale, be it relevant historical frameworks, current factual information and that sort of thing. The other constant that I've observed, here and elsewhere, is that those who support Trump and his ilk offer pretty much nothing but outright lies, half truths and demagoguery. It's really tiresome.

On a bad day I lean towards the notion that the dems have nobody who can beat Trump; on a modestly good day, kinda the same. On a really good day I wonder if maybe Bernie or 'Liz could. In spite of her standing in the race I increasingly think that 'Liz is the best choice for the win. Given the spectrum of the dem candidates, even Biden, nothing else matters.

Not news but an interesting perspective: Trump's greatest vulnerability is the economy – just ask poor Americans | Reverend William Barber | Opinion | The Guardian

[mzilliox]

It's this kind of BS garbage that sometimes propels me towards intemperate remarks.

What I've consistently seen, here and elsewhere, is that those who oppose people like Trump offer cogent rationale, be it relevant historical frameworks, current factual information and that sort of thing. The other constant that I've observed, here and elsewhere, is that those who support Trump and his ilk offer pretty much nothing but outright lies, half truths and demagoguery. It's really tiresome.

On a bad day I lean towards the notion that the dems have nobody who can beat Trump; on a modestly good day, kinda the same. On a really good day I wonder if maybe Bernie or 'Liz could. In spite of her standing in the race I increasingly think that 'Liz is the best choice for the win. Given the spectrum of the dem candidates, even Biden, nothing else matters.

Not news but an interesting perspective: Trump's greatest vulnerability is the economy – just ask poor Americans | Reverend William Barber | Opinion | The Guardian

yes, Democrats should be pushing this notion that Trumps economy is hollow, and they should be pushing the ideas of long term thinking vs short term thinking in economics (and everything). its so bizarre to think a president in a non communist country can run on the economy. smart rich morally devoid folks will keep that game going no matter whos president.

[Toddykins]

While I think this article goes a bit far in characterizing this as a radical new idea vs stating the obvious, I tend to agree that turnout is the key variable:

An Unsettling New Theory: There Is No Swing Voter - POLITICO

[jclay]

For those who would nominalize Trump's societal corrosivity, maybe give this a look: Would you stand up to an oppressive regime or would you conform? Here's the science

I was particularly struck by this paragraph: "As the philosopher Hannah Arendt famously argued, the atrocities of the Holocaust were made possible by normal people, manipulated into conforming to a horribly abnormal set of behavioural norms."

[mjbabcock]

Wasn’t he encouraging the crowd at his NH rally yesterday to fuck with the primary vote today.
Entirely in democratic.
Seems impeachment worthy to me.

[Clean39T]

For those who would nominalize Trump's societal corrosivity, maybe give this a look: Would you stand up to an oppressive regime or would you conform? Here's the science

I was particularly struck by this paragraph: "As the philosopher Hannah Arendt famously argued, the atrocities of the Holocaust were made possible by normal people, manipulated into conforming to a horribly abnormal set of behavioural norms."

This is spot on. "I'd resist, protest, walk-out, whatever, but I have a mortgage, kids to feed, and only so many sick days to take. So....sorry marginalized folks, but I don't want my Netflix to get turned off or my 401K to go unfunded."

I'm as guilty of some version of that as anyone else.

[lumpy]

This is spot on. "I'd resist, protest, walk-out, whatever, but I have a mortgage, kids to feed, and only so many sick days to take. So....sorry marginalized folks, but I don't want my Netflix to get turned off or my 401K to go unfunded."

I'm as guilty of some version of that as anyone else.

Me too. I've got to own that much.

[zachateseverything]

Russian bot? LOL. Might as well also call me and others "racists, haters, and Literally Hitler," too.
That is typically the technique used when posters no longer wish to exchange ideas with the half-dozen Conservatives here.

It is getting late and time to get some nice rest.
It's been fun discussing the Electoral College system we use.
Have a good rest of the evening.

Edgelord is probably a better description of your posting record in this thread (and others). It's tough to figure out if you actually believe the stuff you post or if you're just trolling. Offering up actual insights or engaging in real discussion doesn't seem to be of much interest to you though.

[mzilliox]

Russian bot? LOL. Might as well also call me and others "racists, haters, and Literally Hitler," too.
That is typically the technique used when posters no longer wish to exchange ideas with the half-dozen Conservatives here.

It is getting late and time to get some nice rest.
It's been fun discussing the Electoral College system we use.
Have a good rest of the evening.

conservatives? is that what you are calling yourselves? not right wingers? not trumpers? you think this behavior is conservative?

Bernie is more conservative than the republican party right now.
The Conservative Case for Bernie Sanders - Arc Digital

Trump is not conservative. The current republican party is not conservative. They are right wing, they are destroyers, there is nothing conservative about destruction. there is nothing conservative about externalizing environmental costs onto society.
Trump’s Reverse–Robin Hood Budget Should Be a Gift to the Democrats | The New Yorker

“What kind of unbelievable moral framework allowed this White House to propose $182 billion in cuts to nutrition assistance from needy families, when nearly one in seven households with children are food insecure?” Pete Buttigieg also assailed the budget, at an event in Milford, New Hampshire. “Cuts to environmental protection, cuts to public education. He’s already said that Social Security is fair game,” Buttigieg said. “The President of the United States thinks we’re suckers.”

so conservative

[bcm119]

Here's an interesting bit from Trump's budget proposal which I can only assume will enrage true conservatives (emphasis mine):

"Stands with America’s Farmers. Farmers are experiencing high levels of financial stress due to challenging market and growing conditions. To help farmers survive the market shocks, the Administration has provided $28 billion in trade mitigation assistance and $5.7 billion in supplemental and ad hoc disaster assistance. This unprecedented level of support underscores the President’s commitment to the Nation’s farmers and ranchers. In total, roughly one-third of farm income will come from Government payments and crop insurance benefits this year. As a result, USDA is projecting that farm income will rise for the third year in a row, and if projections are realized, farm income would be above the historical average of the 2000 to 2018 period."

[Matthew Strongin]

Here's an interesting bit from Trump's budget proposal which I can only assume will enrage true conservatives (emphasis mine):

"Stands with America’s Farmers. Farmers are experiencing high levels of financial stress due to challenging market and growing conditions. To help farmers survive the market shocks, the Administration has provided $28 billion in trade mitigation assistance and $5.7 billion in supplemental and ad hoc disaster assistance. This unprecedented level of support underscores the President’s commitment to the Nation’s farmers and ranchers. In total, roughly one-third of farm income will come from Government payments and crop insurance benefits this year. As a result, USDA is projecting that farm income will rise for the third year in a row, and if projections are realized, farm income would be above the historical average of the 2000 to 2018 period."

I guess that's one way to buy some votes.

[theflashunc]

$30 billion to Farmers who didn't need assistance until the administration mucked it all up. And yet time to slash healthcare for the poor.

The mind boggles.

[Sbti]

- Leningrad Lickspittle Lindsey says DOJ has created an express lane for Rudy to submit info from "the Ukraine."

- Entire Roger Stone(Hillary for prison) prosecution team quits since Twitler said the sentencing recommendation was horrible and very unfair and lowBarr backs off.

-good times.

[bcm119]

$30 billion to Farmers who didn't need assistance until the administration mucked it all up. And yet time to slash healthcare for the poor.

The mind boggles.

If you haven't heard, conservatism now means government intervention in the free market as well as socializing the losses.

[mjbabcock]

-
Entire Roger Stone(Hillary for prison) prosecution team quits since Twitler said the sentencing recommendation was horrible and very unfair and lowBarr backs off.

Where the fuck are we living? Was our democracy always so tenuous.