Where will Amazon's HQ2 end up?

[monadnocky]

Count me in... I'm so happy that New Hampshire wasn't a finalist, despite disgustingly sycophantic wooing efforts.

[summilux]

Canada would also represent a savings in employee healthcare. I read somewhere that healthcare cost a US company about $1000usd per year for each employee in Canada. That NY Times article references up to 50000 employees, that would be a pretty big savings right there.

True but other costs would offset that. Canadian employers have to pay for half of a federal pension plan and a federal unemployment insurance scheme for all employees. That amounts to about $6K Cdn per person making a middle class salary. Employment standards are also quite different. A typical Canadian white collar worker would start with 3 weeks of paid holiday and those with some seniority would have 4-6 weeks per year. It is also much harder to fire someone in Canada than the US and severance packages are generally much more generous. People are entitled to 12 months of parental leave for each kid. Companies don't pay for all of this, the federal unemployment insurance program will pay for 66% of salary, but it is generally expected that a good employer will top up the salary to ~90% of pre-leave.

I'd be truly shocked if Amazon came to Canada. I'm pissed that my city even tried. No way in hell Ottawa was going to get it and they spent $100K preparing the bid. I'm sure a bunch of municipal politicsans wanted a junket.

[robin3mj]

Dear God, please don't let Northern VA, um, "win."

Agreed.

[sonicw]

Does any livable city actually want Amazon? I'm a bit surprised (but not actually) at the near-uniform opposition here. To me it's a bit ironic for AMZN to expect communities to put together bids under the guise that they will stimulate local economies and bring in tax revenue, when the it has all been about competing against local retailers/mom-n-pops. It's probably going to be Boston, and I know Amazon is more than just retail (I suspect Cloud will be a huge part of the HQ here) but I really want to see more diversification here beyond tech.

[thollandpe]

• Canadian employers have to pay for half of a federal pension plan and a federal unemployment insurance scheme for all employees. That amounts to about $6K Cdn per person making a middle class salary.
• A typical Canadian white collar worker would start with 3 weeks of paid holiday and those with some seniority would have 4-6 weeks per year.
• It is also much harder to fire someone in Canada than the US and severance packages are generally much more generous.
• People are entitled to 12 months of parental leave for each kid. Companies don't pay for all of this, the federal unemployment insurance program will pay for 66% of salary, but it is generally expected that a good employer will top up the salary to ~90% of pre-leave.

Those all sound pretty positive to me. Don't these kind of benefits make for a happier, more productive work force? Don't these policies end up benefiting the employer as well?

[Matthew Strongin]

Does any livable city actually want Amazon? I'm a bit surprised (but not actually) at the near-uniform opposition here. To me it's a bit ironic for AMZN to expect communities to put together bids under the guise that they will stimulate local economies and bring in tax revenue, when the it has all been about competing against local retailers/mom-n-pops. It's probably going to be Boston, and I know Amazon is more than just retail (I suspect Cloud will be a huge part of the HQ here) but I really want to see more diversification here beyond tech.

Beyond the additional traffic and further inflated housing market, another concern may be disruption to the local job markets. Some of the cities on their list aren’t major tech hubs so, unless they’re bringing in a workforce from outside the city, there won’t be enough workers to sustain their staffing and existing companies. I’d hate to be a small company in a place like Miami trying to retain IT or tech staff if Amazon moved in.

[GrantM]

Does any livable city actually want Amazon?

I think Toronto does.

It's big enough and the economy is diverse enough to just add it and keep rolling.
Sure, i'm biased because i spent nearly my whole life in Toronto, but I can't think of a better place to headquarter a corporate business.

Toronto is the next 'great' city, they're doing a lot of things right with respect to creating a liveable urban culture,
and have pulled of an amazing balancing act during significant growth over the past 15-20 years.
All they need is an NFL team, and Amazon can name the new stadium!

-g

[summilux]

Those all sound pretty positive to me. Don't these kind of benefits make for a happier, more productive work force? Don't these policies end up benefiting the employer as well?

Those are positive things for employees but from an employer's perspective I'm not sure about how "productivity" is affected. It's pretty rare to see an American or multinational company build a management centre in Canada even if they purchase a Canadian company's operation. I think that probably reflects the overall higher cost of doing business in Canada relative to the US.

[dgaddis]

A typical Canadian white collar worker would start with 3 weeks of paid holiday and those with some seniority would have 4-6 weeks per year.

Here in GA in the engineering field 3-weeks is pretty typical for starting out. I know it's not that way in every field or every company though.

A friend of mine works in ATL for a tech company based in CA (not sure if they're in The Valley or not). Because of their industry they have policies to help them compete with other tech companies like Google and Amazon and Apple. He gets 'unlimited' vacation. Apparently, in CA if you have vacation time and quit your job your employer is required to pay you for that time you haven't used yet. So, to avoid that, many companies have 'unlimited' vacation. Here in GA that's not the case - if you get laid off they'll pay you for that time, but if you quit you walk away from it, or at least they're not required to pay you for it. My wife actually did get paid for hers from a previous employer, but that's because she left on really good terms, not because she was unhappy or going to another job, but because we were moving to another town. My buddy is in sales and is good at what he does (which I'm not exactly sure what it is, but he's 33 and his ~$250,000 home is paid for) and as long as he's getting stuff done he can take as much time as he wants, so he took about 5 weeks last year.

To Strogin's point of view - I believe the reason these cities want Amazon is exactly because they'll be bringing in new, supposedly highly paid, people. They don't expect to be stealing a lot of folks away...tho I'm sure they'll take all they can get. It's certainly cheaper to hire someone that already lives there.

[Matthew Strongin]

To Strogin's point of view - I believe the reason these cities want Amazon is exactly because they'll be bringing in new, supposedly highly paid, people. They don't expect to be stealing a lot of folks away...tho I'm sure they'll take all they can get. It's certainly cheaper to hire someone that already lives there.

Which, IMO, would be a pretty naive of these cities. Amazon will move in, open a ton of job requisitions and take resumes from all qualified individuals. They'll certainly hire local people and leave smaller local companies in a tough spot since they won't have the resources to pull from a national pool of candidates. This won't be a problem in all areas, but it definitely would be here in Miami. I already have a hard time finding candidates...I can't imagine how tough it would be if I was competing with Amazon. And I work at the biggest tech employer in town.

[sine]

A friend of mine works in ATL for a tech company based in CA (not sure if they're in The Valley or not). Because of their industry they have policies to help them compete with other tech companies like Google and Amazon and Apple. He gets 'unlimited' vacation. Apparently, in CA if you have vacation time and quit your job your employer is required to pay you for that time you haven't used yet. So, to avoid that, many companies have 'unlimited' vacation. Here in GA that's not the case - if you get laid off they'll pay you for that time, but if you quit you walk away from it, or at least they're not required to pay you for it. My wife actually did get paid for hers from a previous employer, but that's because she left on really good terms, not because she was unhappy or going to another job, but because we were moving to another town. My buddy is in sales and is good at what he does (which I'm not exactly sure what it is, but he's 33 and his ~$250,000 home is paid for) and as long as he's getting stuff done he can take as much time as he wants, so he took about 5 weeks last year.

To Strogin's point of view - I believe the reason these cities want Amazon is exactly because they'll be bringing in new, supposedly highly paid, people. They don't expect to be stealing a lot of folks away...tho I'm sure they'll take all they can get. It's certainly cheaper to hire someone that already lives there.

Drifting. Vacation time (if offered @ x hours per xx hours worked) is earned so if you get laid off or quit accrued vacation time is paid. Since vacation time is carried on balance sheets, many firms limit the amount of vacation time that can be carried over annually. I would be surprised if GA is any different.

You very well might be right about "unlimited" vacation time.......that would be pretty slick on the part of the employer. Take too much "vacation" time and get fired and since vacation time is not defined, no need to pay it out.

Sick leave is a benefit and many companies do not pay accrued sick leave when you leave.

Raleigh, NC (Triangle) is very serious (and secretive) about landing Amazon. It all fits in with the long term plan (such as RTP) of keeping university graduates in the area. Triangle NC is immature in regards to infrastructure but the area is growing rapidly. Also not too far from D.C.

[dgaddis]

Drifting. Vacation time (if offered @ x hours per xx hours worked) is earned so if you get laid off or quit accrued vacation time is paid. Since vacation time is carried on balance sheets, many firms limit the amount of vacation time that can be carried over annually. I would be surprised if GA is any different.

I know that in GA if you leave a job on your own and not for retirement, any accrued time off is given up, employers aren't required to pay it. Between me and my wife we've both changed jobs quite a bit he last few years. If they lay you off, they do pay it - I've gone through that recently too. Not sure if they're actually required to pay it or not, but I know everyone does that I've ever heard of. Speaking of 'time off', everywhere my wife and I have ever worked didn't have separate vacation time and sick time, it was just Paid Time Off. It is generally accrued Xhrs per pay period, but not sure if that counts as 'earned' or as a benefit. I just know if you quit, you lose it.

When my wife got paid for the un-used time off at one gig we were really surprised, they didn't have to pay it, but they did, which was nice.

[sine]

edit

I know that in GA if you leave a job on your own and not for retirement, any accrued time off is given up, employers aren't required to pay it.

I did some quick looking and you are right, Georgia is one of several states that does not require firms to pay accrued vacation time. Something for future employees in these states to consider negotiating for.......money from accrued vacation time can come in handy come departure time.

[davids]

Where do you ride your bike my friend? I can't imagine lapping the Charles is a good time... :)

Ah, what the hell, I'll give a serious answer.

What sucks about suburbs is the large-scale design that couples sprawling subdivisions to densely built-up arteries. Design decisions that not only require a car to get from home to work (or even from home to a cup of coffee or a loaf of bread. Or work to lunch. Etc.) but create barriers to alternative modes of transportation like walking, cycling or light rail.

So yes. I ride through the 'burbs to get to our quiet country roads. That's because someone placed them between me and the country. (Although I've come up with a stupid little loop along the edges of Boston that I'll sometimes ride - on my cx bike - early Sunday mornings. The Charles bikepath has some good views. I'll leave it at that!)

[Matthew J]

I wonder if the current US hostility toward H-1B visas versus Canada's very open temp tech migrant scheme might not skew the balance from all entrants to Toronto. One thing that may be a problem for Toronto of course is the best site in Toronto - the 12 acre Quayside district - is going to be developed by a partnership between Google and Sidewalks. Would Amazon want to be Google's tenant?

Per my earlier post, GM just opened a tech center in a Toronto suburb. Again, companies that do a lot one off tech programs need to be able to quickly assemble technical talent. Canada's more open temporary visa situation is a plus to these companies. US hostility toward immigrants does have consequences.

[Corso]

Ah, what the hell, I'll give a serious answer.

Appreciate it. I used to live in Somerville before fleeing north.

[j44ke]

NYC can handle it. Bring ‘em on. We have Google. Might as well have Amazon. We’ll put everyone on barges in the East River. I hear Seatlites like to live on house boats anyway. Can’t be any more cars because there isn’t any more parking. And evidently we have a surplus of Ubers swilling around the streets. Need to put some people in them. Subways are dying so maybe we can just sell it to Amazon and they can use it to move people and packages. Drones will be so 2010 anyway. Rename the city to Amazon Prime.

[bironi]

I like the rename of Amazon Prime, but Philly's offer has it beat.

https://www.theonion.com/confident-p...ent-1820509855

[GrantM]

One thing that may be a problem for Toronto of course is the best site in Toronto - the 12 acre Quayside district - is going to be developed by a partnership between Google and Sidewalks. Would Amazon want to be Google's tenant?

Going to be interesting to watch this all play out.

I think the Unilever site is further along in the planning process.

https://engage-unileverprecinct.ca/precinct-study