It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[Colinmclelland]

One thread, both sides of the coin?

[Corso]

i dont know why i'm still posting here, but Corso - i think, stepping back, that we can agree that posts like this are not productive in this space.

i am 100% in the anti-trump camp, but i do want to understand why others, especially other cyclists, who must share at least some of the values i do, since we are united in love of cycling, would vote for trump, so yes - i did read many of your other replies with interest, and they do inform me, at least of your thought process and your motivations to vote as you did.

let's keep the conversation above board here though, eh? it doesnt add to the conversation, sinking to the level of saying you're going to vote for trump to piss zillox off right?

Scientist: I've read and respected your posting both here and across the hall. I'll take the above as good advice.

But to underscore the point: Some voted for JFK just because he was handsome. Some Voted for Obama just because he's African-American. Some voted for Hillary just because she's a she.

Sometime, unfortunately, it's that simple.

[mzilliox]

i also want to add an apology to Corso because his inbox is full. So Corso, I'm sorry for how far this has gone and that at time things have been directed to you. Its because you have had the courage to respond over and over.

Its not very hard for me to understand that anyone is Republican, or that they voted for Trump round 1. I think most here get it.

Its very hard for me to watch an anti-environment, pro corporate interest admin. deregulating and repeating histories mistakes. But thats my thing, not yours. Im sorry if its gotten heated at times.

We all have our priorities.

[Blue Jays]

/\/\/\

That was a very decent series of posts above.
Like friends just sharing opinions out on a ride.

[Corso]

i also want to add an apology to Corso because his inbox is full.

Matt, very decent of you to do so, much appreciated, thank you.

We all get a bit heated at times, the old adage of "not discussing politics or religion at a party" has some truth to it.

But we're not at a party...the Salon allows us to go at it! "In Moderators We Trust."

I'm sure most here in the Salon have more in common than we think.

On to the next topic!

[ides1056]

I watched the Super Bowl with a room full of Trump voters, as many as twenty. I stood up for what I believe in and they listened, but we did not get into a big debate. We get our information from different sources, full stop.

[theflashunc]

I am geniunely concerned for the possibility Trump loses in November, and decides to ignore the results and says he's not leaving office. What happens then?

[mzilliox]

I am geniunely concerned for the possibility Trump loses in November, and decides to ignore the results and says he's not leaving office. What happens then?

id assume that he will be arrested or some such. or someone will assassinate him. when pres stops following rules, so does everyone else.

[jclay]

To Corso and others who may have taken offence at my post the other day: It wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular and it wasn't aimed at 2016 decision making but it was an ill advised, inflamatory post; I apologize for behaving in such a disagreeable manner. There certainly are many Trump supporters that I really wouldn't care to know but I doubt that any are on this list, outside of the photos of the neo-nazis.

id assume that he will be arrested or some such. or someone will assassinate him. when pres stops following rules, so does everyone else.

The last thing we need is an assassination. In our current state of political stress that really might cause a bloodbath. I know, I know....it can't happen here. I trust that everybody is wiser than to believe that.

I watched the Super Bowl with a room full of Trump voters, as many as twenty. I stood up for what I believe in and they listened, but we did not get into a big debate. We get our information from different sources, full stop.

I looked up the definition of information: "Knowledge or facts learned, especially about a certain subject or event. synonym: knowledge."

Facts = demonstrable, provable.

A smattering of pertinent examples.

Fact: The U3 rate dropped about 5.5% under Obama and 1.3% under Trump
Fact: The smoothed GDP curves (200day and 100day running averages) show just the tiniest, steady decline since 2010 to the present. Smoothing the curves so folks aren't looking at instantaneous maxima/minima shows that the GDP was better under Obama.
Fact: Wise, caring people don't don't take an axe to a fleet of lifeboats until a replacement fleet is available and ready for service, i.e. you don't claim to care about the health of your citizens, claim to have a the best fix in the galaxy, and then try to toss millions off the ACA before actually having a fix that's ready for prime time. And trump has never articulated his remedy.
Fact: The DJI has been on the rise since 2009 and it's primarily due to near zero fed reserve rates. By and large Trump can only claim to have not reversed that particular Obama era action (low fed rates). Funny, he kinda likes that one...I wonder why (uttered rhetorically)
Fact: Excessively long periods of excessively low interest rates cause excessive valuation of equities prices and cause other problems (harms "savers", creates housing bubbles, harms large pension funds which need bonds in portfolio as hedge against equities volatility)
Fact: The USA has a hybrid economy; part capitalistic, part publicly funded (the socialistic part).
Fact: Bernie Sanders does not propose that we become a socialist nation.

I have not run into current Trump true believers who offer facts. I encounter nothing but demagoguery, false equivalencies and an unwillingness to acknowledge the flip side of the coins of "under Trump xyz is the best it's ever been", when easily available facts indicate otherwise. Or, the unemployment rate is the lowest in ages/ever (whatever it is) without acknowledging that it started under Obama, was the result of his administration's policies (however imperfect...and they were), and that the shape of the current U3 (and the other curves like U5 or 6) curve is nothing but a smooth continuation from Obama's time.

I'll bet that most of your Super Bowl, Trump supporting friends facts, aren't.

[GrantM]

I'll bet that most of your Super Bowl, Trump supporting friends facts, aren't.

Plus they are probably Patriots fans up there!

-g

[bigbill]

I am geniunely concerned for the possibility Trump loses in November, and decides to ignore the results and says he's not leaving office. What happens then?

He's just one man, he'll leave the office and return to his businesses. His supporters might hang on for a while disputing the election results as we saw in 2016 through now. My bigger concern is the precedent set by the Democrats. If the Repubs regain the house and hold the senate but fail to reelect Trump, what will happen to the Democrat President? If it is Biden, there is plenty to investigate even if it turns out to be nothing. Every Democrat candidate has some baggage, Buttigieg probably has the least but is also not likely to be the candidate.

OT from the OP, unless the Democrats come up with a candidate that can beat Trump and move that person to the forefront, Trump wins again. Sanders, Warren, Biden, etc aren't winners this fall. As a Presidential candidate, has Biden ever gotten past New Hampshire?

[HorsCat]

[never mind]

[theflashunc]

He's just one man, he'll leave the office and return to his businesses. His supporters might hang on for a while disputing the election results as we saw in 2016 through now. My bigger concern is the precedent set by the Democrats. If the Repubs regain the house and hold the senate but fail to reelect Trump, what will happen to the Democrat President? If it is Biden, there is plenty to investigate even if it turns out to be nothing. Every Democrat candidate has some baggage, Buttigieg probably has the least but is also not likely to be the candidate.

OT from the OP, unless the Democrats come up with a candidate that can beat Trump and move that person to the forefront, Trump wins again. Sanders, Warren, Biden, etc aren't winners this fall. As a Presidential candidate, has Biden ever gotten past New Hampshire?

He refuses to acknowledge he lost the popular vote in 2016. He's unindicted co-conspirator #1 on the Michael Cohen campaign finance violations, and those drop the day he leaves office. One of the candidates has already openly declared an independent commission established within DoJ to investigate the prior administration's corruption, including the possibility of prosecutions resulting from that. The immunity of the Presidency is the only thing that's kept him out of a federal indictment today, pretty powerful motivator to stay in office rather than risk facing the federal pen.

What happens when he declares the results illegitimate and that he actually won and he's staying in office? What does the GOP do? At this point they've shown nothing but a willingness to capitulate to his every whim. Doesn't matter which Democrat he would lose to, this is a man who refuses to admit defeat in anything, and we're now saying he's going to gracefully hand over power and give up the job? I'm really skeptical that'll happen.

[vvv321]

He refuses to acknowledge he lost the popular vote in 2016. He's unindicted co-conspirator #1 on the Michael Cohen campaign finance violations, and those drop the day he leaves office. One of the candidates has already openly declared an independent commission established within DoJ to investigate the prior administration's corruption, including the possibility of prosecutions resulting from that. The immunity of the Presidency is the only thing that's kept him out of a federal indictment today, pretty powerful motivator to stay in office rather than risk facing the federal pen.

What happens when he declares the results illegitimate and that he actually won and he's staying in office? What does the GOP do? At this point they've shown nothing but a willingness to capitulate to his every whim. Doesn't matter which Democrat he would lose to, this is a man who refuses to admit defeat in anything, and we're now saying he's going to gracefully hand over power and give up the job? I'm really skeptical that'll happen.

Agreed 100%. It's pretty scary in reality. The just 1 man argument is fallacious, there are many people that benefit from the current power structure that probably don't want to give it up. Almost all dictators are elected in to office, at least once. And before someone says, "it can't happen here", well they probably thought that there too.

[ElvisMerckx]

He refuses to acknowledge he lost the popular vote in 2016.

Eh?

[bigbill]

He refuses to acknowledge he lost the popular vote in 2016. He's unindicted co-conspirator #1 on the Michael Cohen campaign finance violations, and those drop the day he leaves office. One of the candidates has already openly declared an independent commission established within DoJ to investigate the prior administration's corruption, including the possibility of prosecutions resulting from that. The immunity of the Presidency is the only thing that's kept him out of a federal indictment today, pretty powerful motivator to stay in office rather than risk facing the federal pen.

What happens when he declares the results illegitimate and that he actually won and he's staying in office? What does the GOP do? At this point they've shown nothing but a willingness to capitulate to his every whim. Doesn't matter which Democrat he would lose to, this is a man who refuses to admit defeat in anything, and we're now saying he's going to gracefully hand over power and give up the job? I'm really skeptical that'll happen.

I think he'd probably be petulant and child-like, but he'd turnover power. I don't think he'll lose, there's no one to beat him, especially if he runs on the economy. Clinton's impeachment in 98-99 weakened the party heading into 2000, maybe a similar situation will exist this fall.

[bigbill]

[never mind]

something, something, passive-aggressive...

[ides1056]

I'll bet that most of your Super Bowl, Trump supporting friends facts, aren't.[/QUOTE]

Not friends. I was a guest of a friend. No TV in my house, and I grew up in SF. We did not discuss facts at all. They don't like California.

Fact is I will vote for anyone but the orange baby. I don't care who it is, and given the fact that the last go-around left me feeling like I had been dipped in dogshit I resolved this time to limit my intake of what passes for news. I know this guy. He is the antichrist as far as I am concerned, and nothing will change my opinion.

I know he will go lower. I have better things to do than wonder how.

[vvv321]

Eh?

He thinks that undocumented immigrants stole it from him, last I checked.

Trump Repeats Lie About Popular Vote in Meeting With Lawmakers - The New York Times

[theflashunc]

Eh?

It's chronic and constant from this guy.

PolitiFact | PANTS ON FIRE: Trump’s latest California voter fraud claim as baseless as past allegations