It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[Corso]

We have Republican govenor, the good people of the commonwealth vote with their eyes open and not blindly following party lines.

Current stats: Republicans in MA:

0 out of 2 in the US Senate
0 out of 9 in the US Congress
2 out of 6 Statewide executive office (there's that Governor you mentioned)
4 out of 34 in the State Senate
32 out of 160 in the State House

38 vs 211. And this is a good session for Republicans.

I can't believe you can deny the voting practices and history of the Commonwealth. On second thought, yes I can believe it.

[Blue Jays]

"...If you support trump you are part of the cancer; and that's the extremely civil version. I don't want to know you.
Jesus, I've fucking had it with trump supporters and their false equivalencies and other carcinogenic bullshit, never mind the simply stupid and moronic crap from the willfully uninformed. And if you think that the dem party is remotely similar to the carcinogenic bile ejaculated from trump's pie hole on five minute intervals then you need whatever part of your brain is missing. Somebody lock this thread before I say what I'm really thinking. I need to stay away..."

This is comedy GOLD and has me howling while watching a movie on tv and reading posts.
Think of VSalon more like a weekend group ride and chatting about current events with friends.
My sense is this would be totally hilarious as spoken sparring while on a massive climb. LOL.

[Shinomaster]

The Republican party sold out.

[marley]

You should move to Texas or better yet Kentucky so you can feel better about your elected officials.

And for Christsake stop bringing up the past we are not talking Clinton, Nixon, JFK- the conversation is about Trump or did I miss something.

My so was 6 when sandy hook happened that was a fuckinq great conversation and nothing has changed thanks to which party. The GOP is a stain on America and the world.

[mjbabcock]

The Clinton references seem like they justify getting Trump out of there. I mean, folks are consistently pointing to bad stuff the Clintons did to defend trump, yet they are so repulsed by the Clintons. Would an equivalence lead to folks being disgusted by Trump? I mean, for Christ’s sake, the next in like is Pence. That’s like an evangelicals dream...more so than Bush. His removal wouldn’t have reversed an election...it would have inaugurated the next in line.
So why the continued fealty to this guy? I feel like folks feel empowered by him, specifically by his “burn it all down nihilism “.
He can come back for 4 years if he wins this election. In the short run he’s screwing things up, but the youth and marginalized of this nation are awakening and engaging politically. The Republican Party is relying on a strategy that is going to screw them royally for decades. I can swing 4 more years. I can also foresee judges getting impeached, former administration officials serving time.

[thollandpe]

Not that we're keeping score, but there are 25 women (so far) who say they've been assaulted:

1. Jessica Leeds (groping)
2. Ivana Trump (rape)
3. Kristin Anderson (groping)
4. Jill Harth (groping, forced kissing)
5. Lisa Boyne (voyeurism)
6. Mariah Billado (voyeurism)
7. Victoria Hughes (voyeurism)
8. Temple Taggart (forced kissing)
9. Cathy Heller (forced kissing)
10. Karena Virginia (groping)
11. Tasha Dixon (voyeurism)
12. Bridget Sullivan (voyeurism)
13. Melinda McGillivray (groping)
14. Natasha Stoynoff (forced kissing)
15. Juliet Huddy (forced kissing)
16. Jennifer Murphy (forced kissing)
17. Rachel Crooks (forced kissing)
18. Samantha Holvey (voyeurism)
19. Ninni Laaksonen (groping)
20. Jessica Drake (groping, forced kissing)
21. Summer Zervos (groping, forced kissing)
22. Cassandra Searles (voyeurism)
23. Alva Johnson (forced kissing)
24. E. Jean Carroll (rape)
25. Karen Johnson (groping, forced kissing)

[Mabouya]

Not that we're keeping score, but there are 25 women (so far) who say they've been assaulted:

His supporters voted for an avowed pussy grabber, so I don't think any of that would bother them.

Maybe, just maybe if he did it to someone close to them they might object, but who knows, maybe not. They might even consider it an honor.

[Sbti]

"Locker room" talk, again? FFS. Who coined that phrase in response? None other than the illegal alien prostitute. Have the kids Google the photos of her. Nice lesbian porn and the ones where she's drugged up with Epstein. But the black woman wore a sleeveless dress, and you know was... black. Goobers heads explode. Be best.

[jclay]

To clarify, as seems to be needed: This is not about policy differences, per se, though it is often reflected in them. This is about a President who intentionally pours gasoline on the fires of divisiveness, to a degree I've never seen here, in his effort to maintain power. That is now reflected throughout the GOP. Frequently going to the FB pages of Marco Rubio, Rick Scott* and my US Congressman Neal Dunn, I see nothing but demagoguery and the same sort of intentional divisiveness that's clearly intended to inflame. None of those people are doing anything to leverage common ground or bring our country together. They intentionally do exactly the opposite and THAT makes all of them a serious threat to the foundations of our institutions and country, and utterly unfit for office. What's frightening, though well demonstrated historically, is seeing how effective it is; the Senate aquittal being an obscene, if non-violent, example.

As to the blue dress, another false equivalence. After years of the Republican Party trying to hang anything on Bill, and failing, he lied to Congress about consensual sex. Pretty simple explanation to your kids with enumerable examples.

*Some may remember Rick Scott (CEO of Columbia/HCA) for committing what, if I remember correctly, was the largest Medicare fraud case in history. His reward? According to the Sun Sentinel, $300 million in stock, $5.1 million severance, $950,000 consulting contract for five years, no prison time, being elected governor of Florida twice and then being elected to the US Senate!

[davids]

Thanks for responding, friend. I appreciate you putting yourself out here and your honesty. I’m also really disappointed that others have attacked you for your post. That is wrong.

So why would anyone who shares a different view even want to respond to this? What's the use?

To be F'NK CLEAR: I voted for Trump because he was NOT Hillary. Period. Can't wrap your head around it? Too bad. That's what many did, and will do again.

I’ve got a co-worker who voted for Trump for the same reason. I would never, ever argue that Hillary was an exemplar of how to behave. I do think she was an effective senator and an excellent Secretary of State. I believe that competence would have carried over into her administration.

I voted for Trump because I chose to support my party-Republican-Period. I live in a state where many voters D without knowing the candidate, issues, or anything else as their unions tell them who to vote for, and JFK was a Dem. Many have NEVER once voted for a Republican. So I did it. For my party.

You’re not being kind to MA voters here. But I will acknowledge that I usually vote party-line D. I do so based on the candidates’ positions, though. And while I didn’t vote for Baker (or Romney, or Celluci…) I think he’s a good governor, although more focused on fiscal caution than fixing MA’s biggest issues. He’s finally showing some balls around housing creation, which is good. And even transportation. I would never, ever lump him in with Trump’s enablers.

I voted for Trump because I did not agree with some of Obama's positions and directives.

This I totally understand. And I’d happily debate issues with you for years!

When I compare dirty /crappy Republican politicians to dirty/crappy Democrats, I find myself disliking the Dems more. Sorry, but that's simply it. They rate higher on the hypocrisy chart.

I "support" Trump on this site as I feel he's been treated differently than Democrats who have not been challenged in the same way, with the same yardsticks.

I don't know who I'll vote for next. I know some will think that's BS, but until I know the choices, I won't decide. But I will not for Trump over Warren-100% sure of that.

So call me a racist, supported of world wide nazism, anti-semite, whatever you broadly want to lump anyone who doesn't jump on YOUR bandwagon, or agree with YOUR choices.

I would never call you any of those things, nor suggest you leave our Commonwealth. I have had enough conversations with you to know you are not a racist, Nazi supported, or anti-Semite.

How do you respond to Trump’s behavior, though, when he gives aid and comfort to racists and anti-Semites? What would put him beyond the pale for you?

I know what I am, and I'm none of the above. What I am is tired of trying to engage close minded people who only see one way, and everyone else is a "moron."

BUT, I don't hate others who don't agree with me. I am friends with many who don't share the same political views. I don't wish harm on anyone here. Is that a hard concept to accept? Seems like others feel the opposite. And I find that sad.

I get this. Like I said, I’m really disappointed that folks here (even here!) cannot separate their reactions to Trump from their reactions to you. If we can’t stop screaming and listen to each other we are doomed.

[davids]

You should move to Texas or better yet Kentucky so you can feel better about your elected officials.

I'm calling you out for this comment.

The equivalent would be Corso asking you why you don't move to Canada or better yet Sweden so you can feel better about your elected officials.

Be respectful, please!

[Matthew Strongin]

Piling on to davids's comments, while I think that Trump's behavior has enabled many to let loose the worst of themselves (a conversation for another day), I don't believe that Trump voters (note how I didn't say supporters; I do think there's a difference) are universally racist, evil, cruel, etc. I find Trump, his behavior, most of his policies, nearly all of his beliefs, his lies and his divisiveness to be abhorrent. But many of the people who voted for him are good people who had their reasons for doing so and we need to be able to talk about those reasons and find ways to understand each other.

Corso, it's probably not a surprise that you and I disagree about many (most) matters of politics or government. But I'd happily sit down over a coffee, a beer, or venture out on a ride to talk about those points of disagreement. One of my teammates and good buddies is a Trump voter. We give each other shit regularly and debate constantly (enough that we're often told to stay in the back so nobody has to listen to us argue). And we've found that we want many of the same things but have different perspectives on how to get there. And we've changed each other's minds on a few matters as well. And most importantly of all, we're good friends who have each other's backs despite our politics. I'd like to see more of that here and out in the world.

[j44ke]

I'm just going to slip this in here, simply because it has nothing to do with politics but does provide a nice example of possible adversaries working together.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/scien...r-caught-film/

I've linked it in the thought-provoking journalism thread, making it a double-post but worthy imho.

And I think these threads benefit from everyone occasionally coming up for air, otherwise the body (and soul) gets knotted into a ball.

Back to regular programming.

[jclay]

I was not referring to the 2016 election; I'm talking about now. Trump's MO is evil and destructive and it should not be tolerated by anyone; to say that there is an avalanche of evidence is to understate the case.

None of the current Democratic candidates display or employ the destructive behavior and practices of DT. In terms of attempting to unite the country, any of them would be at the opposite end of the spectrum from him. Policy issues we can negotiate and sometimes have reasonable differences but there is no room for a man who would tear this country in half if it would keep him in power and money or stoke his ego.

As a side note: It's kinda funny that a couple of the issues that have resonated with Trump voters (reducing global military footprint, attempts to re-shore or at least level the multinational playing field) are issues that Bernie has long championed.

[mzilliox]

the thing with badgers and coyotes is they work together for a common goal within the confines of nature. thye know that by working together both will have better outcomes, and they do not possess jealousy, so that even if both get better outcomes, one is not able to feel the jealousy of the others success. we can, so the badgers and coyotes are saying piss off, i your success means my loss, because i hate to see anyone but me win, even though it actually means a bigger win for me.

we are not of nature, or we would not tolerate someone like trump who destroys it.

some here can say but hillary.

i can say but he destroys. lives, land, democracy.

theres still nothing thats been said in here that even comes close to changing minds about trump, not even close. i see the reasons, they are the same reasons as before, as though in 3 years nothing has changed, and thats dangerous,

the reason we cant move past another person supporting trump is that it really makes no sense. party and not the other person are the same thing. but why party? Trumps not republican? why this? why now? why can you look past the obvious and many flaws, more than Hillary, that make him unfit to lead and govern.

we are dumbfounded because to the majority it is obvious. its also obvious to his allies, but they get to suck the tit of power, so thats why they do it. but why voters? what are tou getting from trump here that you dont think you could get from someone better fit to govern?


and as far as your other lame equivalence, what do you tell your daughter about blowjobs? well, id steer clear of teaching her about that, maybe allow it to happen naturally, or via porn, or a friend. id warn her about sexual predators, but probably best not to get into blowjobs.

David, is it a shock that a room full of people who abhor trump would react in such a way to trump supporter who tends to respond with false equivalences and deflections and schoolboy jabs? sure you get a tidbit of not hillary here and there, but that means nothing at all does it? so it still leaves every person in here who thinks of trump as completely subpar to run a beer league softball team let alone our country. we are pissed that there are people who would give him a free pass based on what? not hillary? an economy that always works? hes awful, so if you support him there better be some good reasons right? we would like these reasons, because the ones being given are not good, thats why this carries on. theres nothing else here but trying to figure out why some people still think trump is better thn any choice. and so far the math doesnt come close to adding up

[j44ke]

I would suggest that people have more common goals that perhaps badgers and coyotes. However, there are those among us whose bread and water sustenance on this earth is harvested from the destruction of that commonality. And right now, they are eating well.

[GrantM]

Trump will most likely win again. Not due to Russians, not due to Fox News, not due to (insert excuse) you want to use to sleep at night. He'll win because enough of your fellow Americans will vote for him and some actually like the job he's doing.

And who's fault is that?

When Trump wins again it's because people believe government is broken.

The Republican/Tea/Fox/Rush/Trump Party have been sending a single unified message for decades: Government is the problem.

Breaking the faith in institutions, gov't, media, UN, religion, schools, healthcare, it's a very dangerous plan.
The income inequality situation is a bomb waiting to go off. I've never been so frightened for the future,
when there was and is another path, things could have been different.

-g

[Corso]

theres still nothing thats been said in here that even comes close to changing minds about trump, not even close. i see the reasons, they are the same reasons as before, as though in 3 years nothing has changed, and thats dangerous,

and as far as your other lame equivalence, what do you tell your daughter about blowjobs? well, id steer clear of teaching her about that, maybe allow it to happen naturally, or via porn, or a friend. id warn her about sexual predators, but probably best not to get into blowjobs.
p

If your goal in posting here is to change minds, your technique simply sucks.

Your one-sided, I'm right rants don't cut it. " I don't understand why" after it's been explained over and over, well, maybe I should type slower... and to label comparisons as "lame or false equalence" is sloppy at best when you refuse to try to understand the comparisons.

If you are trying to be funny about the Clinton reference, it failed. Horribly. I brought up my daughters, so I'm not going to feign "how dare you", but I'd expect a bit more from you or anyone posting here.

I have not yet decided on who to vote for, as we don't know the choices. But I may vote Trump just to add to YOUR head exploding.

Can you wrap your head around that?

Let's try it: Corso, why did you vote for Trump again?
Corso: Just to piss off a guy on a web forum.

[AngryScientist]

I have not yet decided on who to vote for, as we don't know the choices. But I may vote Trump just to add to YOUR head exploding.

Can you wrap your head around that?

Let's try it: Corso, why did you vote for Trump again?
Corso: Just to piss off a guy on a web forum.

i dont know why i'm still posting here, but Corso - i think, stepping back, that we can agree that posts like this are not productive in this space.

i am 100% in the anti-trump camp, but i do want to understand why others, especially other cyclists, who must share at least some of the values i do, since we are united in love of cycling, would vote for trump, so yes - i did read many of your other replies with interest, and they do inform me, at least of your thought process and your motivations to vote as you did.

let's keep the conversation above board here though, eh? it doesnt add to the conversation, sinking to the level of saying you're going to vote for trump to piss zillox off right?

[mzilliox]

Sorry if i offended folks. Im not saying much new anyway, so im out. Vote to piss people off or because of what someones not. Thats yer right. Or vote for nature, humans, the future, thats fine too.