Help losing 20 lbs

[dhoff]

202.5

[Michael Roy]

Sat., Sunday, Monday weight: 207.5, 207.5, 207.0. Cycling item: No long ride this weekend because my wife was sick and I had the kids. But I did get in a 14-miler on a tandem with my disabled ten-year old, which was great fun (and equaled his longest ride).

[dhoff]

I find that sometimes long rides yield increases in weight. I can burn 10,000 calories on a 100-150 mile day, consume 2-3000 and end up weighing more the next day.

So today is a day like that. I am 205.5 up from 202.5 last week after 150 miles.

Does anyone have ideas/explanations for this, most annoying phenomenon.

-d

[AntLockyer]

I can burn 10,000 calories on a 100-150 mile day,

I doubt that's an accurate number.

[AntLockyer]

Oh and I'm 165 now and still have love handles

[dhoff]

I doubt that's an accurate number.

What are you saying? That you think its too high or too low? I have 3 totally different computers that show me burning between 7 and 900 calories per hour depending on average heart rate. If you think its too high, remember I am over 200 lbs.

[AntLockyer]

I think it's too high, I can't remember the exact numbers but when I tried a power meter I was shocked at how much lower it was than my Garmin estimated.

Example when me plus bike weighed 195 lbs a 3 hour 50 mile ride was 1300 kcals based on the power meter.
A different ride 3 hours and 40 miles my garmin said 2300 kcals.

[dhoff]

I think it's too high, I can't remember the exact numbers but when I tried a power meter I was shocked at how much lower it was than my Garmin estimated.

Example when me plus bike weighed 195 lbs a 3 hour 50 mile ride was 1300 kcals based on the power meter.
A different ride 3 hours and 40 miles my garmin said 2300 kcals.

So what you are saying is that for a 175+- pound male at some indeterminate HR you burn somewhere between 430 and 730 Kcal/HR. Weight and HR are key hear. I do not know why you would question my numbers other than a lack of understanding of how calorie burning works. A larger person burns more calories at a given HR and the higher the HR the higher the burn rate. I am pretty clear that my numbers are as close as these devices can estimate.

[AntLockyer]

So what you are saying is that for a 175+- pound male at some indeterminate HR you burn somewhere between 430 and 730 Kcal/HR. Weight and HR are key hear. I do not know why you would question my numbers other than a lack of understanding of how calorie burning works. A larger person burns more calories at a given HR and the higher the HR the higher the burn rate. I am pretty clear that my numbers are as close as these devices can estimate.

I agree your numbers are as close as these devices can estimate, what I'm saying is they aren't good at estimating. It's got nothing to do with anything other than the power you expend over the period. Nothing to do with HR and the only reason weight comes into it is that it will take you 30 more watts to achieve the same speed as me in a given situation.

It's clear I wont change your mind but the estimate is out by over 300 kcals an hour for me, I can't imagine it being different for anyone of any weight.

[dhoff]

It's got nothing to do with anything other than the power you expend over the period. Nothing to do with HR and the only reason weight comes into it is that it will take you 30 more watts to achieve the same speed as me in a given situation.

It's clear I wont change your mind but the estimate is out by over 300 kcals an hour for me, I can't imagine it being different for anyone of any weight.

I believe that you are mistaken. According to my sources and my understanding of physiology, weight is a huge factor in calorie consumption. Exertion is as well. Exertion can be measured by power output or HR, neither is accurate in and of itself, however both point to exertion levels. I am curious as to what measurement you are using to come up with your levels that you believe is so accurate. My ranges, not exact numbers, have been substantiated by several people I consider experts in the field.

In the mean time this chart, (which I do not trust but is typical) should give you some sense of how exertion and weight come into play. NutriStrategy: List of Calories Burned During Exercise

I am hoping this conversation is valuable to others. I am not interested in argument, but a conversation that yields new knowledge is a good thing. If you have something to teach me here, something I do not know, please add it. For me the most interesting part of this would be to understand your formula for determining calorie consumption. Perhaps there is something that I am not taking into account. I am not an expert in this field. My study was in neurophysiology and physiological psychology, not sports physiology. But what I am saying all seems substantiated by every source I can find. Again, perhaps I am missing something. Please elaborate.

Thank you.

Oh and by the way, 204.2 today.

[AntLockyer]

I to am not an expert by any means, but my understanding is that basel metabolic rate is indeed affected very much by weight (and fat to lean mass ratio and HR) but exertion is power output coupled with an efficiency factor. Assuming I'm no more efficient than you (it's more likely the other way round) If I put out 300 watts for 10 minutes and you do the same our calorie expenditure would be the same.

The link you sent and all others like it aren't correct as they are trying to guess your power from unrelated sources.

This is what I believe to be true and the device I measured my power with was a powertap. If I'm wrong then I've yet to see something to make me believe that.

From my point of view this is a civil discussion and you certainly have more relevant teaching than me.

[dhoff]

If I put out 300 watts for 10 minutes and you do the same our calorie expenditure would be the same.

The link you sent and all others like it aren't correct as they are trying to guess your power from unrelated sources.

This is what I believe to be true and the device I measured my power with was a powertap. If I'm wrong then I've yet to see something to make me believe that.

This point you are making about power expenditure is an interesting one and I need to do more research. I too am measuring power, in my case with a Quarc on one bike which gives me almost identical calorie counts, (+-5%) to the HR monitor I have on another bike and the one I used to use on yet another. All of these devices give me numbers relative to what I perceive as exertion. Given the same type of ride. the one variation I have noted is that if I have been overtraining or am not feeling well my HR is higher relative to power output and as such the HR based calorie numbers show up as high. But this phenomenon is predictable as I do monitor Resting HR. When I am well it is in a very narrow range 49-53 and when I am not it is over 60.

This is a fascinating discussion. I remember all of the people at the beginning of this who said "ride more eat less" early on. Some of us have to turn our well being into a fine science to make the same progress that others can do with simple formulas. My ability to metabolize calories is also an issue. In order to get the nutrition out of food, I have to eat with great care. I have seen Ultra Racers performing well on Big Mac's and shakes. For me to stay in the race, I have to eat very carefully. The wrong bite of food can take me out completely. And if I eat the wrong thing, this weight loss precess gets interrupted for two to three days sometimes more.

[Michael Roy]

weight today: 205.5.

[AntLockyer]

This point you are making about power expenditure is an interesting one and I need to do more research. I too am measuring power, in my case with a Quarc on one bike which gives me almost identical calorie counts, (+-5%) to the HR monitor I have on another bike and the one I used to use on yet another. All of these devices give me numbers relative to what I perceive as exertion. Given the same type of ride. the one variation I have noted is that if I have been overtraining or am not feeling well my HR is higher relative to power output and as such the HR based calorie numbers show up as high. But this phenomenon is predictable as I do monitor Resting HR. When I am well it is in a very narrow range 49-53 and when I am not it is over 60.

This is a fascinating discussion. I remember all of the people at the beginning of this who said "ride more eat less" early on. Some of us have to turn our well being into a fine science to make the same progress that others can do with simple formulas. My ability to metabolize calories is also an issue. In order to get the nutrition out of food, I have to eat with great care. I have seen Ultra Racers performing well on Big Mac's and shakes. For me to stay in the race, I have to eat very carefully. The wrong bite of food can take me out completely. And if I eat the wrong thing, this weight loss precess gets interrupted for two to three days sometimes more.

When you find out more please share. Perhaps you are the point on the curve where it all works out. There has to be one otherwise they wouldn't keep on with those formulas.

Like you diet is mega important to me since becoming diabetic, most of my calories get rejected.

[Michael Roy]

weight today: 205.0

[dhoff]

202 today

[Michael Roy]

203.0 today. getting close to dhoff

[dhoff]

201.5, we are in for a run to break 200. Haven't been there since the 90's

I am off for the National 24hour Championships in Michigan. I always seem to gain at these long events, so it may be yours.

[Michael Roy]

202.0. dhoff ahead by a hair. Good luck in your race. 24 hour solo or team? Either way, hat's off to you.

[Michael Roy]

wight Sat., Sun., today: 202.0, 202.5, 200.0