Riding tip #1

[Sasha]

Great post Dave. I was doing hill repeats yesterday and should have been more mindful of this. When I jumped out of the saddle, I have a habit of jumping too far. Way too much pressure on the arms and hands. It probably makes me feel strong, because my whole body is being stressed, but ultimately yields less power to the pedals.

One question - if you watch the video of Armstrong and Pantani on Mt Ventoux, you can clearly see what you're talking about in Armstrong's style. He is positioned over his pedals; his arms are loose; he's quite upright (after he gets out of the drops). But Pantani is one of those climbers that rode in the drops for much of the time. Damiano Cunego does the same thing. His arms look loose, but he appears to be much farther forward. Maybe he's not. Pantani and Cunego are both really small riders, but what are differences in physics here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=FXPXHK7I1...eature=related

[headset]

... that i really look for in a bike forum. thanks Dave for starting this thread.

[Tom]

it was only recently that I started to conciously keep my head up when I was standing and on the top of the bars. It takes a lot of weight off my hands and I can breathe better. You'd think that'd be natural but I had to think about it.

I'm not adding much but maybe a couple more data points.


I was thinking about the other tips you were giving and one thing occurred to me as I was heading down a straight flat stretch of road: I don't think you want the bike making unsteady noises. The smoother and straighter you're going, the steadier the noise the bike makes. It also occurred to me that it might make sense to ride in a straight line. The other day at one end of a long flat I saw a bike coming the other way and the guy riding it was going one way, straightening, going the other way, straightening, sort of like he was fighting the chimeric twin over who got to steer. I had to figure he was spending a lot of energy changing direction. When he went by I could see he was really working it to go quickly, but I had to wonder if he just backed up a little on the effort and tried to go smooth he might actually cover ground faster.

[e-RICHIE]

The most common mistakes I see when sprinting are <cut>

Dave

here's my observation. never and i mean never sprint on the tops. if
you watch any race finish, the fastest cats are always in the drops.
and i don't necessarily mean field finishes. i am refering to small breaks,
side-by-side sprints, groups of 12, whatever. i cannot count how many
tdf's i have seen in the last 10-15 years where a lance or someone like
him was sprinting from a group while hands were on the hoods and every
rider was out of the saddle. pitch be damned. if you are going for the line,
get those hands deep in the bends atmo.

[Dave Kirk]

here's my observation. never and i mean never sprint on the tops. if
you watch any race finish, the fastest cats are always in the drops.
and i don't necessarily mean field finishes. i am refering to small breaks,
side-by-side sprints, groups of 12, whatever. i cannot count how many
tdf's i have seen in the last 10-15 years where a lance or someone like
him was sprinting from a group while hands were on the hoods and every
rider was out of the saddle. pitch be damned. if you are going for the line,
get those hands deep in the bends atmo.

what that CT guy said.

dave

[Watoni]

Great post Dave!

When I am fitter I do climb out of the saddle more and do try to keep the hands very loose.

On good pavement and grades that are not too extreme it seems almost automatic, but on more slippery surfaces or very steep grades I end up balancing to avoid rear wheel slippage or front wheelies (see the uphill TT at this year's Giro to Kronplatz).

I generally do fine but could do better and have difficulty articulating what I am doing/should do.

[swoop]

beautiful (thanks dk and rs). and if any of you knuxkleheads post a picture of ivan dominguez sprinting on the tops... he only does that because he can't shift his dura ace in the drops. its what it is.

[brent]

another reason why this place rocks!

[e-RICHIE]

beautiful (thanks dk and rs). and if any of you knuxkleheads post a picture of ivan dominguez sprinting on the tops... he only does that because he can't shift his dura ace in the drops. its what it is.

have never seen it.
but i have also never seen anyone win on the tops, and that
includes all the two-up and small group sprints that lanceeee
did at the tdf atmo.

[dave1215]

on this topic of "rider position when riding out of the saddle" could one of the luminaries here discuss "rider motion while riding out of the saddle"?

specifically, it seems that the side-to-side rocker motion consumes energy but you still see some pros rocking their rides on sprints and climbs, no?

[e-RICHIE]

on this topic of "rider position when riding out of the saddle" could one of the luminaries here discuss "rider motion while riding out of the saddle"?

specifically, it seems that the side-to-side rocker motion consumes energy but you still see some pros rocking their rides on sprints and climbs, no?

when you're in the coffin it's hard to be smooth.
thinking of time trialing (fast) versus sprinting and/or climbing (fast).
two different animals atmo.

[Ishmael]

Something I do when I stand up on a steep climb is think about pulling up with each upstroke, using my hamstrings and calves. I figure the downstroke when you are standing (and pulling) is mostly just your weight. Partly this takes strain off the quads when they are tired anyway, but I always seem to pick up speed when I do this, and it increases my cadence. If I don't think about it, I tend just to plonk my weight on the pedal. I feel as though the dancing on the pedal effect (as I feel it) only occurs when I focus on pulling up. It also keeps my weight off the handlebars.

Is this standard biking wisdom, or am I doing something silly (like not thinking about the complete revolution all the time)?

[Tom Kellogg]

Those who have ridden with me might have noticed that I rarely sprint in the drops. Since I won the field sprint at the Cargas Crit (3rd) a couple of weeks ago, and got 4th in the State Road Race sprint (6th) on Sunday it must happen some time. Not trying to make waves here ... and yes, I can shift from my drops which I use mostly in breaks and during bridging.

We humans are just too varied to make too much of "rules of thumb." I am built kind of like a freak, as Too Tall will attest. I am not sure whether it is my over long torso or what, but I can't make as much power sprinting in the drops as I can on the hoods. Believe me, I have tried a lot of both over these many years.

In general, I think that Dave's notes are a very good guide in this area though. For each of us, we eventually find what works for our riding and our bodies. It is amazing how many riders, with no coaching or fittings, etc. seem to settle into positions that end up being "right" given enough miles and time.

Have a wonderful weekend or many miles and joy.

Ps. Ever try up shifting Campy from the drops during a sprint? You MUST relax your right elbow to pull it off. None of the control levers are perfect in regard. Maybe that is why I use the hoods during sprints ... Huh.

[e-RICHIE]

Those who have ridden with me might have noticed that I rarely sprint in the drops. Since I won the field sprint at the Cargas Crit (3rd) a couple of weeks ago, and got 4th in the State Road Race sprint (6th) on Sunday it must happen some time. <cut>

congrats, tom.
my bad - i meant sprinting for the win.
really.

[mschol17]

congrats, tom.
my bad - i meant sprinting for the win.
really.

Zing!

[e-RICHIE]

Zing!

i didn't mean it that way atmo.

[Shinomaster]

I just remembered watching the Tour Dupont years back when Freddy Rodriguez was an amateur on the national team. He jumped some guys for a sprint in the tops and eventually lost. Davis Phinny, (or some other ex pro) the color commentator, blamed his hand position and inexperience for the loss.

[Fixed]

I start from a stop with arms extended then ( i have one gear ) then i lower my upper body and work the bike and spin i have no big gear strength cos i don't use them but i have a fast spin once i am spinning as fast as i can i have to sit ....... i like the new traffic lights that have the countdown I always sprint for those .... i sprint a lot during a days work and the messenger bag has helped me quiet my upper body
cheers .... for real sprinting you need leg speed as well as power
butch

[Cary Ford]

I tend to watch others sprint past me. But I stay in the drops.

[Fixed]

some cat with a computer said i went 15mph the other day
i could have sworn i hit 17
cheers
butch