the tell all NO HOLDS BARRED alignment thread atmo -

[EnginCycles]

Drew, did that plate have divots in it that weren't able to be ground out or is something else going on with its surface? What I'm talking about is mostly in the near right corner, but it looks like it's elsewhere too.

It does have one pit about .1125" in size that was below what we wanted to grind off but what you are seeing is smear marks from the oil that gets moved around with the base of tools. The crappy dust from acetylene is my last thing I really want to deal with. I have removed all abrasives from the shop into a dirt room but that dust is annoying. I have an overhead hood that needs to be installed and ducted out but who has the time??

-Drew

[edoz]

The thing with a FAG tool or a string is that it's hard to tell if it's the ST or the HT that you are seeing as "out" - Garro.

But the seat tube is easy to check with just a straight edge, so once you know it's square you're only seeing head tube twist. At least that's what I'm thinking.

C'mon Craigslist! Daddy needs an inspection plate:)

[vulture]

I will jump in. Been thinking about this a bunch, I have questions about what I have seen other builders do and as usual, I do shit my own weird way. I don't have an "alignment" table, I have an inspection table. Really it is just a left over piece of granite from a counter top. It is and inch and a quarter thick . Yes it moves. I checked how flat it is at my old job on a certified inspection table with a gantry dial gauge and its within a thou all over. So what, it moves. Well I don't clamp anything down to the table and check both sides of everything. As you have seen from Steve's posts, my seat tube/bb sub assembly gets dialed in first, tube runout arc to the front. I check the hell out of it on both sides before and during welding. After that it is left alone, I have a really bomber ass heat sink that helps keep the faces parallel, then I don't fuck with the BB any more. If it is distorted it it sucked in from welding on the top, measurable at the edges. I made a heavy thru bar that cones the head tube with a stand off that sets on the table and balance the center of the seat tube with a peice of bar stock specific to the seat tube diameter. . Wheel in. I check for wheel center and plane, seat tube/head tube parallel, and bb centerline. If the BB isn't on center then the head tube is out of parallel. THEN I flip it over and check it all again. I check my frame from both sides and I don't use the BB to secure it . What I have found is that my welding sequence and heat sinks have helped get things straiter. Tolerance? I really am not worried about it now because stuff just keeps coming out at my measurable zero, withing my measureable and usually about 5 thou. Do I trust that number as gods honest truth? well I don' t have a twat hair from the Virgin M ary so no way. The wheel is strait and centered off of the table, BB CL and HT CL are good and the HT and ST are parallel. I don't have fancy enough equipment to say for sure that it is to .0000001 anything, but I do get repeatable centerlines and parallelism by using my both sides relative measuring method. Also, I do check stuff with My own version of a FAG (measures inside of dropout) because a shop geek might check the thing and it better pass for the lowest common denominator.

[thegroundup]

Rad...

[Eric Estlund]

Wade wins.

[Too Tall]

*pardon the interruption. This thread obviously is headed to the framebuilder wiki. I'll leave behind an permanent redirect link incase you have this bookmarked.

[steve garro]

But the seat tube is easy to check with just a straight edge, so once you know it's square

Sure - until you attach those TT/DT thingies......those pull & can be bowed - Garro.

[steve garro]

This thread should be a sticky of what will happen to you if you spend too much time alone in a shop. - Garro.

[vulture]

Wade wins.

maybe I win a trip to the Rubber Room in a strait jacket. I really like this thread, every builder is trying to achieve the same thing with different procedures, we all have the goal of strait strait strait. Normally I would call BS on numbers like Dazza is throwing out, but nothing trumps experience, I'm in the hundreds of frames and when people who have thousands of frames under their belts talk, I listen. I have learned something from every post on this thread, some of what Dave has said has really resonated with me, and from my work experience, I really appreciate how Drew has approached strait bikes, he has put serious time and energy in creating a procedure and using some rad tooling to make it happen. I am hard headed resourceful and try hard to work with what I have available, I have so much respect and admiration for the E-richie, Dazza, Steve, Dave,Tom...I have it easy because I tig weld my frames, I couldn't imagine brazing frames to that close, but they have the experience and that trumps all. I imagine Dazza's torch hand muscle memory...his arms tell his brain what to do probably. So lets go out to the shop and shoot for ZERO.

[bellman]

Plus one on Vultures post (#69)

I want to say first that Just because one doesn't chime in with thier procedure it doesn't mean that they aren't reading with interest.

I think to add yet another verbal diagram here would be non-serving. My process is similar to all of them but identical to none of them.

In this thread I have;

-Learned

-Confirmed

-Affirmed

-Re-affirmed

-Forehead slapped


But most of all read along with content pleasure at the information being generously shared here.

So thanks.

Jake