It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[lumpy]

You're using logic in a situation that defies logic. This is the same logic that was used in 2016. Hilary HAD to win because she was potentially less damaging than Trump. That didn't work so well for the Democrats...

Trump won because he was different from mainstream Republicans and Democrats. He was a megaphone for those who felt un- or under-represented. He told them that they were right, that the system had failed them. He was from outside the system! The key to winning the next election will be convincing undecided or "on-the-fence" voters that the candidate understands and feels their anger and disgust at politics as usual. Until the Democrats figure that out, Trump will win again (unless he is actually found guilty in the senate).

Greg

I don't think you can ascribe the result to any cause or small set of causes, you have to deal with an exceptionally broad and varied set of causes. I could go into a lot more detail if I didn't have pressing work.

[davids]

I'll give you that.

So how do the Bidens waddle on all of this? If it smells like a too good to be true family deal...

It started with them, and apparently no one (save David) seem to give a rat's backside about them. Biden was in office when this started.

When I mentioned Obama's use of drones on another thread, it was pointed out by a few that you "can't say that" without linking Bush to it.
So, how can you possibly un-link the Bidens in this case?

You don't have to answer that, we already know.

Dude.

This is an example of The Big Lie. We all should know the old quote, "repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth."

I assume I'm the David you're referencing? So let me quote myself:

Here are some true facts about the Bidens, Burisma, and the Ukraine.

Hunter Biden joined the board of Burisma after being discharged from the Navy for drug use. He had no experience with either the region or industry. It certainly seems as though his appointment was an attempt by Burisma to curry influence with VP Biden. And it reflects really poorly on Hunter that he did this.

There is no evidence that Joe Biden tried to protect Burisma. In fact, in his role as Vice President, he pushed Ukraine to dismiss the prosecutor, Victor Shokin, who (despite his vows to the contrary) let the Burisma investigation go dormant. Once Shokin was fired, VP Biden took credit for pressuring Ukraine to dismiss Shokin by withholding US loans from the country. This was the stated foreign policy of the US government: Use our financial leverage to get Ukraine to fight domestic corruption, in this case by pursuing an investigation of Burisma, the company on whose board Hunter Biden served.

It's exactly the opposite of what you (and our President) claim. VP Biden is bragging about pressuring the Ukrainian government to fire its top prosecutor who was failing to investigate the company whose board his son had been appointed to.

^^^This. Shee-it, I've voted straight Democrat in every election over the past ~40 years, yet if Mayor Pete doesn't wind up on the ballot I've got half a mind to vote for Bill Weld come November.

Aw, don't, please? Any Democrat will be better than Trump.

And Weld? Please. A couple months ago, I finished my lunchtime burrito and stepped out onto Summer St directly behind Gov. Weld. Fascinated, I followed him for several blocks through downtown Boston (not stalking him, just following his footsteps back towards my office, OK?) Not only did no one approach him to bend his ear, no one even noticed who he was. One of the 3 Republican candidates for president in 2020, and he couldn't even get a friendly nod...

[Blue Jays]

We live in a free country. People should feel free to vote just as they wish.
I have used the write-in option when I know of excellent people for roles.

[Bob Ross]

There will be two choices in November; Trump or somebody in the Democratic party who's vastly more constructive. Voting for anybody other than the Democratic candidate would be remarkably stupid.

I don't disagree; I was kidding re: how I would vote.
But sweet mother of god, if I were a Republican you can bet I'd be doing everything in my power to get someone else on the November ticket.

[mzilliox]

hmmmm, fascist much? blocking books? free speech?
Impeachment Trial Live: Republicans Expect to Win Vote to Stop Witnesses

[AngryScientist]

This is a good article that sums up my feelings i think:

Why the Senate Should Hold Donald Trump Accountable | Time

[gregl]

This is a good article that sums up my feelings i think:

Why the Senate Should Hold Donald Trump Accountable | Time

Thanks for posting this. It sums up my feelings fairly well. Trump hasn't drained the swamp, he defecated all over it and turned it into a cesspool.

Greg

[theflashunc]

Alan Dershowitz done lost his mind.

[AngryScientist]

Alan Dershowitz done lost his mind.

Retired Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz argued in President Trump’s impeachment trial Wednesday that the president’s demand for Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden — a leading candidate to oppose him in the presidential campaign — is not an impeachable offense because Trump was acting on the belief that his reelection is “in the public interest.”

This "trial" is getting seriously out of hand. I feel like i'm watching a crazy Judge Judy episode.

[jclay]

I don't disagree; I was kidding re: how I would vote.
But sweet mother of god, if I were a Republican you can bet I'd be doing everything in my power to get someone else on the November ticket.

Doh!

[Colinmclelland]

And innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to a bunch of bike nerds discussing politics on a forum. It's a legal concept that applies to the guilt or innocence of indicted criminals. Flash stating that Trump did what he did (which he definitely did do) is not a legal determination that tests the limits of innocent until proven guilty. Trump's innocence or guilt is being determined through a congressional process. The House determined that there was enough evidence to implicate him of impeachable offenses and the Senate is conducting a trial (of sorts) to determine if a punishment is warranted (or at least that's what they should be doing). That's where innocent until proven guilty will apply. Out here in VSalon land, we can all say what we want about his guilt.

Isn't that for actual trials...you know with witnesses and shite...

It seems as though the verdict has been pre-determined and will have SFA to do with the evidence, innocence or guilt.

Granted we've got our own issues with #Scottyfrommarketing , but as a foreigner vaguely looking on this is just adding another layer to the US government farce as far as I'm concerned.

[mjbabcock]

This "trial" is getting seriously out of hand. I feel like i'm watching a crazy Judge Judy episode.

Within this line of thinking, the president could assassinate a political rival with no consequences.

[robin3mj]

They've been moving the goalposts on behalf of their crooked leader for three years, so I'm not surprised Dershowitz came in, knocked them down and basically announced they're not even playing the same sport anymore.

[ides1056]

Within this line of thinking, the president could assassinate the Truth with no consequences.

fixed it for you

[theflashunc]

We've now reached the "he did it but it's not impeachable" phase of the discussion with an unchecked and frankly crazy view of executive power from the party espousing limited government.

I hope this act of debasing cowardice is in the first line of all their obituaries. The President's personal interest is not the national interest. Guys who were alive 250 years ago and stuffed horsehair in walls for insulation knew this.

[ides1056]

I realize what follows is not even remotely PC, but the don is making his party his bitch.

[guido]

I realize what follows is not even remotely PC, but the don has made his party his bitch.

Fixed it for you...

[bcm119]

I realize what follows is not even remotely PC, but the don is making his party his bitch.

It's worth noting that he may be making Republican congressmen his bitch, but he is alienating many conservative voters. I've talked to several life-long Republicans who feel like they don't have a party any more. Unlimited executive power and blowing up the deficit may have been the last straws, not only as they relate to the current events, but as pillars of conservatism that have now been shit all over for decades to come.

[gregl]

I've talked to several life-long Republicans who feel like they don't have a party any more. Unlimited executive power and blowing up the deficit may have been the last straws, not only as they relate to the current events, but as pillars of conservatism that have now been shit all over for decades to come.

With the exception of “... pillar(s) of conservatism...” you described me very well. I tend to be moderate on social issues 😊. The party I identified with has all but disappeared. Ronald Reagan was quoted (about the Democratic Party) as saying, “I didn’t leave the party, the party left me.” That’s where I am today.

Greg

[Blue Jays]

Based on recent news, it increasingly appears no more witnesses will be called and that President Trump will be acquitted.