Read me >>> sharing illuminating journalism

[htwoopup]

And, putting away my father’s finger and going to something that we also should agree on that could also make the world a better place. And as it is about commuting by bike it should be appropriate for this Salon I hope....

Why women don'''t cycle and what cities can do about it — Quartzy

[Saab2000]

I have nothing to add other than that this thread and the high level discussion here has inspired me to subscribe to the online New York Times. It’s awesome and there’s not enough time in the day to ingest all the content.

I’ve been deliberately staying away (for now) from the politics and opinion pages just so I can see what else they have. It’s good stuff. Good writing by smart people.

[Dallas Tex]

The Death of the Family Gathering | TODAY.com

This is a light, little article. I found it more interesting than most anything I’ve read in quite some time.

[vertical_doug]

Politely, this is in fact how it is done. For instance, during certain times of their illness manic depressives want/ need outside satisfaction that ostensibly can be fulfilled via gambling. It is relatively easy for a Las Vegas operator to target an invidual when he is vulnerable and sell him into a trip to his perceived solution. The unscrupulous ones do it and say well we put a “if you have a gambling problem call....” bug on the ad. The scrupulous operators do not do it.

In election advertising (and spreading disinformation as the Russians, Chinese, Iranians have provably done), it is the same thing just go for the vulnerable and play their vulnerabilities.

This is not necessarily a political spectrum question. People tend to hear what they want to hear and believe things that go along with preconceived notions.

In politics it is also bad because you can say anything you want with no proof. In politics you can say total falsehoods with impunity under FCC and FEC regulation. You could NEVER do that in a commercial advertising. That is the law. There are very good reasons for it being that way. But, as the late John McCain often said in these matters, the uniintended consequences are devastating.

That is why the Russians (and sadly now some Americans) are playing the vulnerabilities of the so called right wing. And it is why the Russians are playing the vulnerabilities of certain segments of some African American communities in the US.

These are facts. I have worked in this industry and have been involved also with politicians, industry types, bureaucrats and law enforcement in trying to grapple with this problem.

It is not a stretch in any way to see how it is actually pretty easy to manipulate a populace into doing something to harm itself by getting individuals to take actions that the individuals normally would not want to/ or would take.

We all need to wake up and realize it is not one side and it is a very real and very dangerous problem.

And we need to force those politicians who think of power not country, who work for us, to stop aiding and abetting and in some cases even committing the will of our enemies.

I try to listen to either Rush Limbaugh or Chris Plant show once every other week. It's a mental challenge because they just pound you relentlessly with misinformation. I really have to hand it to the team of writers who can craft this. You have to work really hard to spot the little second lie inside the obvious lie. Often, the lies come so fast you cannot keep up.

I also have to thank my freshmen lit professor in college. I had a propaganda class where we spent a semester studying techniques, weasel words etc. I feel like it help prepare for the present day.

[guido]

I try to listen to either Rush Limbaugh or Chris Plant show once every other week. It's a mental challenge because they just pound you relentlessly with misinformation. I really have to hand it to the team of writers who can craft this. You have to work really hard to spot the little second lie inside the obvious lie. Often, the lies come so fast you cannot keep up.

I also have to thank my freshmen lit professor in college. I had a propaganda class where we spent a semester studying techniques, weasel words etc. I feel like it help prepare for the present day.

I'd rather move to directly to pounding my head against the wall...

[ides1056]

Opinion | Don’t Let China Win the Green Race - The New York Times

Meanwhile, as politics in the US is consumed by factionalism...

If it's a race, it's analogous to the running of the bulls in Pamplona.

[caleb]

I also have to thank my freshmen lit professor in college. I had a propaganda class where we spent a semester studying techniques, weasel words etc. I feel like it help prepare for the present day.

Policy folks sometimes talk about the policy process breakdown, where the deliberately-general ideas that get a party elected fail to provide sufficient unity to craft specific policy once they're in office. When the party tries to make policy, they break into factions and their weasel words are exposed. Achen and Bartel's book Democracy for Realists gives a good account of this phenomenon.

What's less discussed is that in a post-policy party there's no policy process breakdown because there's no policy. The weasel words then stand unchecked by the need to create concrete results. So politics becomes not the creation of policy, but the fight over words, and ultimately the aesthetics (including both beauty and power relationships) those words signify.

Part of where the left in the US has gone so deeply wrong is to get sucked into a vision of politics that's about aesthetics and power relationships. A post-policy party will always win that fight against a policy-focused party.

[Dallas Tex]

....In election advertising (and spreading disinformation as the Russians, Chinese, Iranians have provably done), it is the same thing just go for the vulnerable and play their vulnerabilities......

I can think of no more vulnerable demographic than an underemployed millennial with $150k of student debt that blames their entire situation on trump winning an election they had been assured that their candidate would win (and thereby solve all their problems).

....That is why the Russians (and sadly now some Americans) are playing the vulnerabilities of the so called right wing.........

Why would the Russians, or the Chinese for that matter, want to aid trump winning the next election? He's been far tougher on both than any president in recent memory.

[htwoopup]

I can think of no more vulnerable demographic than an underemployed millennial with $150k of student debt that blames their entire situation on trump winning an election that they were utterly convinced their candidate would win (and thereby solve all their problems).



Why would the Russians, or the Chinese for that matter, want to aid trump winning the next election? He's been far tougher on both than any president in recent memory.

Glenn,

I am intentionally not going to get into discussing whether your statements are factually correct or not as I would suggest that the conversation that is more important is how this is used to intentionally build up one (or two) countries' world influence by weakening a country that they have seen as their enemy.

And, ironically, to participate in a back and forth about the "facts" or "not facts" and having everyone yelling and shutting down on listening is exactly the purpose of some of the disinformation spin that Russia, China, Iran are doing. I recognize that you are trying to have a conversation not an argument but unfortunately I fear if we keep the discussion to supporting one side or another we will miss the bigger issue.

That is why I laid out two very different examples of known Russian operations. Unfortunately, given the public nature of this forum it would be inappropriate to go deeper.

That said, the Russians and/ or the Chinese (for example) win by staying focused and causing disarray in those they view as their adversaries.

That is why I said it is not a political spectrum thing...it is against all sides. So far it has been predominantly against the so-called right wing but it is also being done against the so-called left wing.

The more they can get us factionalized and fighting against each other, the stronger their position in the world.

That runs the gamut from getting individuals in families fighting political arguments at the Thanksgiving table to strong allies fighting about whether NATO should be as strong as it was.

And, it is only going to get worse if you work in or study what can now be done in artificial communications...speeches with words coming out of peoples' mouths in very real video that they simply did not say.

Real fake media.

Not calling real journalism fake as is the fashion of some in the political arena at the moment, I mean genuinely fake.

That is an intentional double entendre.

[ides1056]

Why would Russia, China, etc?

Imagine there is a race, and the one in the lead is getting his heels clipped by those behind.

[vertical_doug]

I can think of no more vulnerable demographic than an underemployed millennial with $150k of student debt that blames their entire situation on trump winning an election they had been assured that their candidate would win (and thereby solve all their problems).


.

Because of the concentration of wealth that is happening, you have many different demographics in the US which are feeling vulnerable. I tend to think the most vulnerable to manipulation are the seniors- declining interest rates hurting their retirement incomes, changing technology etc etc.... a lot of angry older voters out there feeling anxious.

[guido]

Why would the Russians, or the Chinese for that matter, want to aid trump winning the next election? He's been far tougher on both than any president in recent memory.

Are you serious? A few modest sanctions for show, but Trumps entire foreign policy has delivered on Russian and Chinese goals. Allies abandoned, alliances broken, influence squandered. He has left the entire world open to their meddling and influence. All of the non-domestic resources needed for advanced manufacturing are slipping from our grasp. He's been the best thing for Russia and China for years.

[mzilliox]

I can think of no more vulnerable demographic than an underemployed millennial with $150k of student debt that blames their entire situation on trump winning an election they had been assured that their candidate would win (and thereby solve all their problems).



Why would the Russians, or the Chinese for that matter, want to aid trump winning the next election? He's been far tougher on both than any president in recent memory.

Think harder (or more, or different) if underemployed millenials are what you consider the "most vulnerable demographic." Also think harder or more or different if you think this president is "tough" on anything let alone Russia and China.

[guido]

Washington Post | At war with the truth

[mzilliox]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...nl_most&wpmm=1

[vertical_doug]

Why would the Russians, or the Chinese for that matter, want to aid trump winning the next election? He's been far tougher on both than any president in recent memory.

The US sees Europe, Western, Central and Eastern, as part of the US-led liberal international order in which political, economic and societal liberalism promote a vibrant, dynamic and open system. Russia’s perception, however, is that the global international system ought to be a balance of powers where differing powers live. Trump does not believe in the liberal international order, hence he is a preferred candidate since his world view is closer to putin's (full stop).

You lump China and Russia together, but actually having China/US fight a trade war and destabilize trade is also in Russian interests. Over beers sometime I'll explain why Trump's use of sanctions against Russian Oligarchs actually strengthen Putin, doesn't weaken him.


Russia wants more VIktor Orbans and Recep Erdogans in neighboring countries. We should not.

[Dallas Tex]

. He's been the best thing for Russia and China for years.

You’re going to have to explain to me how tariffs, trade war, and a narrowing trade deficit is ‘the best thing for China’.

Ditto for Russia. How is sending lethal aid to Ukraine helping Russia in any way? How does the U.S. becoming energy independent help Russia?

[vertical_doug]

You’re going to have to explain to me how tariffs, trade war, and a narrowing trade deficit is ‘the best thing for China’.

Ditto for Russia. How is sending lethal aid to Ukraine helping Russia in any way? How does the U.S. becoming energy independent help Russia?

U.S. Imports from Russia of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels)
There is a talking point about energy independence, then there is the reality of crude imports. There has not been much change from the last two years of the obama administration regardless of what you my hear.

Tariffs just force the price of goods up for Americans and are paid for by American importers regardless of what Trump may tweet. The trade deficit for goods has actually increased.
In 2018, US imported from China $539.5 billion (+6.7% YOY) and US exports to China where $120.3 b (-7.4%) so it expanded 43.3b for goods. So far for 2019, the trend has reversed, so some of the 2018 run up may have been US importers stockpiling to beat the tariff, however, we haven't had the result from the trade war in a favourable new deal with the Chinese, so the verdict is out on that. But from a balance of trade, it has failed to deliver its goals. But ultimately, this is a long play here.

As far as delivering lethal aid to Ukraine, the recent release of $250mm was necessary to stave off impeachment...so whether he did it to help ukraine or help himself is up to debate.

But almost as important, although China and Russia at one time were both communists, they were very different communists and never allies. So what is bad for US/China relations is actually a win for Russia.
This is about Russia not China.

[guido]

You’re going to have to explain to me how tariffs, trade war, and a narrowing trade deficit is ‘the best thing for China’.

Ditto for Russia. How is sending lethal aid to Ukraine helping Russia in any way? How does the U.S. becoming energy independent help Russia?

The trade deficit has actually increased not decreased during the " trade war". China has opened extensive markets with third countries it has never worked with previously making them more resilient over the long term. The current Chinese regime has become more popular at home for sticking up to the USA allowing it to do stuff like repress Hong Kong that it would have been harder to do previously.

Russia has not lost any territory on the ground in Ukraine and is opening talks with a much weaker Zelensky due to the withholding of USA recognition and support. Giving Russia an opening in Syria squanders decades of USA effort there, and making any current or future partner think twice about ever trusting the USA again. Throwing NATO into disarray has certainly also been a boon for Russia. Trump's public questioning of the Intelligence community has opened season for Russian espionage.

Claiming that the US is energy independent is a misunderstanding of how the international oil market works... Yes we produce more, yes prices have dropped a lot. Does it go to some independent USA fuel stockpile? Nope, it all goes into the international market to the highest bidder.

[Dallas Tex]

Russia has not lost any territory on the ground in Ukraine and is opening talks with a much weaker Zelensky due to the withholding of USA recognition and support......

Are you really trying to spin the U.S. providing lethal aid to Ukraine as a positive for russia?

.....Claiming that the US is energy independent is a misunderstanding of how the international oil market works..Yes we produce more, yes prices have dropped a lot.....

The U.S. producing more and lower prices = not good for russia.



No amount of spin can change the fact that both Russia and China would be a lot happier with a 3rd Obama term as President Clinton right now.