Richard Sachs Cycles

[Eric Estlund]

I've heard and read a fair amount of criticism about the non-racing bikes, be they art bikes, porteurs, rando, cargo or what have you.

My take- the only bike in my booth that was not a pre-sold client rig was the only purely racing bike I brought, and the first inquiry in my box this morning was for a cargo trike.

People make and sell the oddball stuff because the bigger industry does not. Criticizing a builder for showing a weird custom bike always strikes me as odd. The "weird" part is the reason a custom builder was sought out and commissioned in the first place.

I love race bikes, but I know I would feel like something was missing if that was all we saw at the show. I also didn't get a chance to wander as much as I would like, but I would say traditional category bikes were well represented. I haven't seen a lot of press yet, but I imagine that if the "show bikes" and off center work are getting the most coverage then there are at least a few folks who find that sort of thing worth paying attention to.

I had a great time talking about the bikes I build for specific clients. These are just examples; when it's your turn, you'll get one made for your own idiosyncrasies, tastes and wants. It doesn't have to look like anything there.

[Jonathan]

As a framebuilder who has never had a bike at NAHBS, every year I get a pang of regret and envy for those that are there. It's worth noting that the guys who who aren't afraid to share their criticisms every year usually go back because they support the cause and seek some benefit in going. Bravo!

[Dorman]

The shadowy minions

You automatically win for using minions in a sentence.

Great thread. I'm primarily into racing bikes and that's what I focus on when I get to go to the show. I'm sure I'm not alone, but I am also very sure there are just as many people out there that couldn't care less about the race bikes and love the show as well. I say bravo to all of the participants and their diversity for keeping the overall show extremely interesting. The world needs bikes and as long as they are constructed well and show the industry in a good light I think that is all that really matters.

[Moke]

I sort of wonder if the show has not passed the judging and awards part and maybe should just be more like a meeting of the clans. Take for instance the Ti bikes. How can anyone say Mr. Potts who is a total legend in frame building has put together a "better " as in to win the division frame this year than something Tyler at Firefly, Spectrum, Moots, Kent, Carl Strong , the Black Sheep, Mr. Holland, Max at Hampcos, or probably a few others could lay down any day. I have a half dozen Ti bikes and to tell you the truth they are all beautiful. If the house is on fire I may burn to death deciding which one I want to save first.

Then look at lugs at Tig steel or lugged bikes. How can anyone decide that Zank is better than Richard, but not as good as Tom this year? Or that anybody can come up with a lugged stainless "better" then Anderson. When Sasha won with a trike a way long time ago, I sort of gave up on judging bikes. Then there are the "workingman" bikes, the Coconinos, the Soulcrafts, Rock Lobsters that are all great bikes, but aren't made for the show ring. I sort of like the Border Collie standard, don't matter what ya look like how do you do your job. The Handmade show is what it is, the coolest collection of bikes on the planet, but "winning", I don't think so. I am not being a candy ass "they are all winners" sort of guy, but come on there are a whole bunch of bikes out there that other than the paint. If you couldn't see the bike you were sitting on you would never be able to tell which was which in a road test.

[Kumo Cycles]

The show was conceived so that those on the inside could mentor, nudge, hand-hold, and encourage those on the outside. The very notion of a get-together that would allow some face time with peers, resource sharing, and some form of passing the torch now seems a distant memory. As a matter of fact, it's near to impossible to accomplish this now.

This saddens me, as a young man with a brazing torch in hand and a long path ahead I would be ecstatic to be able to pick the brains of someone who is much further along the journey.
Here in the antipodes there are fewer builders, and fewer still who would have the time to be able to take a young builder into their shop and teach them what they have taken years to learn, there are also no courses anywhere near where I live.

I have been searching for an option to learn from someone, but have come up short. If I could even just sweep the floors at the workshop of someone like Richard Sachs, and try and absorb some knowledge it would make me happy.
As an addition to apprenticing, having a concentration of builders in one place like at the NAHBS would be great for the young builder if he/she could just get some time to talk to them!

And to those saying that the rookies shouldn't be able to display their work alongside the masters, we all gotta start somewhere.

[devlin]

Then do it. I'm being serious not smart-ass.

I've started already. Not much to show yet as I'm still going through the basics and learning how to feel the tools and the material.

Richard, I could hear what you were saying about the 'Master/Aprentice'. My only suggestion is, as you pointed out, to hold seminars to small groups where these face to face interactions are fostered.

[e-RICHIE]

"In the karaoke hall that we all occupy, the microphone that is being passed clearly needs a mute button. Perhaps it would make more sense to cut the power source completely."

So, are you going to Denver next year? While "the show must go on", you don't have to subject yourself to the noise.
Or, to paraphrase Woody Allen in Hannah and her Sisters, "What if the worst is true, don't you still want to be a part of it?"

I am still on the west coast and not wired 24/7 so do not know if you read my follow up (which was posted in general, rather than to you, Mike). But I am already signed up for NAHBS 2013 since 5:01 last Sunday. My point - again - was not about was was on display as much as it is about the show's transition from what it was conceived for into what it has become. As I wrote, if it truly is a commerce driven event and all about the money, I will have no problem taking that route. To wit, any urge I do have to be magnanimous will be suppressed until I am off site rather than in Denver atmo.

[chasea]

When you're playing a big show in front of a crowd that mostly doesn't know you, you leave the "interesting" shit at home and hit them over the head with a succession of road-worn, proven rockers.

And whether that's polished lugs, intricate metal work, or racy minimalism; you just do it. You do you.

If they don't like it, there's another band nearby. That's the beauty of the festival gig.

[e-RICHIE]

When you're playing a big show in front of a crowd that mostly doesn't know you, you leave the "interesting" shit at home and hit them over the head with a succession of road-worn, proven rockers.

And whether that's polished lugs, intricate metal work, or racy minimalism; you just do it. You do you.

If they don't like it, there's another band nearby. That's the beauty of the festival gig.

I have seen several references in this thread to racing bicycles versus french types (or any
other variation). None of what I posted on my site has anything to do with a type of bicycle.
It begins and ends with the show's evolution from a gathering of like-minded peers in the trade
who were, essentially, going there to give back, into a weekend of commerce and competition.

[chasea]

I have seen several references in this thread to racing bicycles versus french types (or any
other variation). None of what I posted on my site has anything to do with a type of bicycle.
It begins and ends with the show's evolution from a gathering of like-minded peers in the trade
who were, essentially, going there to give back, into a weekend of commerce and competition.

Well, I was implying both friendly competition as well as camaraderie. That's the other beauty of the festival gig; interacting with artists who create something very unlike the thing you make. But realizing there is a common bond. And getting advice from the guys who came before you.

S'why me and Jim Dandy get along famously.

[e-RICHIE]

Well, I was implying both friendly competition as well as camaraderie. That's the other beauty of the festival gig; interacting with artists who create something very unlike the thing you make. But realizing there is a common bond. And getting advice from the guys who came before you.

S'why me and Jim Dandy get along famously.

You mentioned runway shows earlier atmo. I am a fashion industry slut. The contrast between what they do and what NAHBS is could not be wider. In fashion, the makers have factors behind them, and business plans, and most have a work force (or outside vendor) that does the fabrication. The designer is not a lone wolf showing work he sewed up a week before. The average NAHBSter is a one-man operation, lately more on the new side than not, and will never be the next Marc Jacobs, Jil Sander, Rei Kawakubo, or Halston. There are near to no ways to tie together the fashion industry with framebuilding except to note that the products from each are near to not essential for everyday life but are, in fact, fetish-ized by those who follow the trades.

[chasea]

You mentioned runway shows earlier atmo. I am a fashion industry slut. The contrast between what they do and what NAHBS is could not be wider. In fashion, the makers have factors behind them, and business plans, and most have a work force (or outside vendor) that does the fabrication. The designer is not a lone wolf showing work he sewed up a week before. The average NAHBSter is a one-man operation, lately more on the new side than not, and will never be the next Marc Jacobs, Jil Sander, Rei Kawakubo, or Halston. There are near to no ways to tie together the fashion industry with framebuilding except to note that the products from each are near to not essential for everyday life but are, in fact, fetish-ized by those who follow the trades.

From the customer's point of view, it seems like a runway show. And if a guy wants to spend hours of his life polishing lugs to a mirror shine for the show, even if he doesn't want to do it every day in his shop; well, he's going to do it. Is it a good business model? No. Just like how most runway shit never hits the streets.

I appreciate Brioni. But I buy and wear Levis.

You're selling the builder more than the bike, no? I mean, everyone can pretty much get the same tubes. They're just assembling them how they see fit.

[anomaly]

Gee guys, maybe we should wait until the horse is sick before we take it out back and shoot it.

Despite concerns of the path NAHBS has/will travel and the shape of that arc, the fact remains that over 8,000 people plunked money on the barrelhead and strolled through the door. As far as the bikes built and displayed, yeah, there were very utilitarian, some over the top, and a couple Rube Goldberg tribute bikes. But, I for one like the diversity of thought and construction. If for no other reason it reinforces what people like and don't like.

I took deposits, I met new friends that I am already looking forward to seeing again in Denver, and caught up with old friends. If the price I have to pay for all of that is to suffer being in the room with some bikes that I don't agree with philosophically then I for one find it a bargain.

I should be there, we have lots of friends in Denver. Be sure to bring a MTB to ride.

[Gradient]

Somehow I just get this vision of a bunch of farmers having coffee complaining about the bumper crop they just pulled in. Me, I'm just bitter because my last minute attempt to steal away to Reno, and hit the show with a friend, fell through.

I do see the point that the original intent was to bring builders together and create a kind of modern "Guild" around this niche industry. With the proliferation of free downloaded online meeting software, someone could create some webinars or instructional videos, interviews that could be broadcast under the NAHB umbrella.

[Tom Officer]

Interesting read, I don't usually follow all the frame builder stuff on the forum, but I certainly appreciate a beautiful handmade bike. I don't have one any more, expense and since I still race fear of breaking one in a crash.

I think the show is pretty cool and it is great to see the range of stuff. Just wish more guys would support the racing end of things, like Richie does (even though it's cross!). It used to be a huge influence to see what the good guys were racing in the old days and I'm sure drove the business for those small framebuilders. There is no reason that the handmade steel bikes can't still be competitive if the sport. Just wishing we'd see some of that again.

[Eric Estlund]

Thread drift:

I don't have one any more...just wish more guys would support the racing end of things ..There is no reason that the handmade steel bikes can't still be competitive if the sport. Just wishing we'd see some of that again.

Hi Tom- I just clipped a couple of lines I found interesting. This isn't directed at you so much as just using your words to further the conversation. Richard does a ton of great work with his cross team. Outside of managing a team, what are you thinking of as support? In my mind the best race support I can do for a rider is build them a bike matched to their needs to help them win.

I agree that handmade race bikes can hold there own in the current clime and sometimes wonder what the hurdles are. With the price on stock bikes closing (or reversing) the gap on handmade stuff that one argument seems to hold less weight.

Thanks- I find this stuff interesting.

[hmbatrail]

Just wish more guys would support the racing end of things, like Richie does (even though it's cross!).

Actually, I think more builders support racing than you might first think. Few are as high profile as Richard's team but they are out there. Don Walker, Spooky, Zancanato, me, etc.

[jerk]

Thread drift:



Hi Tom- I just clipped a couple of lines I found interesting. Richard does a ton of great work with his cross team. Outside of managing a team, what are you thinking of as support? In my mind the best race support I can do for a rider is build them a bike matched to their needs to help them win.

I agree that handmade race bikes can hold there own in the current clime and sometimes wonder what the hurdles are. With the price on stock bikes closing (or reversing) the gap on handmade stuff that one argument seems to hold less weight.

Thanks Tom- I find this stuff interesting.

the hurdles are that a protour race bike has to look like what you can buy at a bike shop. the days of things like this are over.

[e-RICHIE]

This is to Tim (who I love, by the way) and some others -

I'm still in SF until Thursday night and trying to simultaneously process my NAHBS experience as well as leave it behind. Today, Wednesday, my thoughts are this (and subject to change) - I am weening myself off caring about the show's direction unless asked, and believe me, I have been asked a fair amount since 1.0 atmo. Though I am not a parent, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that NAHBS is like an offspring with whom you share nurturing obligations and share experiences along the way. At some point, it becomes a stand-alone and mature entity. Whether that has finally happened or not, the lens I view all of this through contains this filter. So, if the time has come that the weekend is all about the money rather than it being a way to get together with peers, that works. I have many other situations in which I can get the collegial and seed-planting needs pacified.

Toots is right. The Baller's Weekends might serve this purpose for many of us who want the face time with clients and enthusiasts. The riding, the epic-ness, the food, and the informal environment all are conducive to moving forward any commercial and promotional agendas any of you (us) might have without having to deal with the shipping expenses, the dry cleaning bills, and the enormous amount of time and energy taken by the trade show we all left a few short days ago. The marketing and viral possibilities of a NAHBS are infinite, but as long as most of us can only make one frame at a time and have a backlog, how that backlog grows should not be an issue. The model for Baller's is ripe for infecting others with whatever enthusiasm you can spread for your brand. If you are committed to sending out messages about what you do, best to not limit it to a single broadcast medium. NAHBS has a purpose. And rather than tweak it to include a myriad of agendas we all might like to add to it, the epic 4-5 day events like Josh promotes are a very good alternative.

Maybe in a week or so I will have totally contrary points of view to what I have posted so far. After all, I was born with blonde hair. For now, I am leaning to letting go and will go back to my other outlets that fill needs not met with a trade show. The 'cross team is at least a 7 month a year time sink, and weekends like Baller's will always be a priority. The brand building that these investments of time fill more than pay for themselves.

[hmbatrail]

This is to Tim (who I love, by the way)

This will be the leading jacket quote when I write my memoir. P.S. I am married so it will have to be sport sex only. Cool?

It is a cheap flight to Charlottesville and I am in.