Virus thread, the political one.

[Corso]

Show me where I blamed the schmuck for the outbreak, sport.

I concede my post didn’t age well. Turns out the USA overtook China hours after I posted, not days.

If that’s his version of winning, I’d hate to see what losing looks like.

"MAGAmites - is that winning?- let's see, how else would one interpret that?

That and what you just replied with? "If that’s his version of winning, I’d hate to see what losing looks like"

Your taking a shot, at least stand behind your intent.

[mzilliox]

Are you willing to bet the farm on Biden winning?

again, baby games. you actually still think this is about being on the winning side? how sad.

[mzilliox]

"MAGAmites - is that winning?- let's see, how else would one interpret that?

That and what you just replied with? "If that’s his version of winning, I’d hate to see what losing looks like"

Your taking a shot, at least stand behind your intent.

and now hes willing to let many of us die so he can see money numbers go up again, because people like him only know success if they can see money go up. winning is right, who will be the lucky winners tonight? the 41 year old doctor who died treating patients without equipment? so trump can get his wins in? dude, priorities, i dont get it

[Blue Jays]

/\/\/\

tl;dr for @Corso: How dare you have a different viewpoint and opinion!

[mzilliox]

/\/\/\

tl;dr for @Corso: How dare you have a different viewpoint and opinion!

i welcome all views, and i fully expect it for you 2. you guys are consistent. this isnt nor has it ever been a helpful addition to the conversation, any of the several times you have tried it. he presents his views, i present mine, you present yours, hors cat his, jayclay his, davids his, tootall his, ades his, and so on and so forth. we all do this. every now and again one of you even manages to make a thoughtful point, and i appreciate that. But if you think trumps response to this was good, or adequate, you are misinformed and biased, thats not opinion. there are people who simply know more about these things. i took the time to outline quite clearly how his response was inadequate. so refute those points if you must, but dont pretend like im being intolerant of ideas, im just challenging them when they require challenging. these baby games again. and the trumps gonna win bet the farm crap is simply annoying and counterproductive.

[Drew]

It's appalling but it gives credence the the quote i used to hear a lot when the A$ was above parity and the US kept talking about its Strong Dollar policy while simultaneously cutting interest rates and printing money..."more people in America vote than have passports". So politically they could care less how low the US$ gets.

I think it’s fairly obvious that no one in power gives a shit about the value of a dollar, since they all just agreed by 96-0 to print $2 trillion (=10% of US GDP). It’s a slippery slope. Not that I see a lot of better options... but... what stops us from printing another $2 trillion in six months? When does it stop? Why can’t we just do this all the time?

[giordana93]

alternative facts.

[Corso]

you miss the point when you say this Corso, but i think you know this and proceed anyway. nobody is blaming trump for covid, that would be pretty silly wouldnt it? you and i both know this, so playing baby games around that is unproductive. whats also unproductive in the covid thread is your further trolling when you put forth this utterly unattractive and juvenile nonsense of deciding the election before we have it. i dont know if you think this trolling behavior is cute, or welcome, and i cant speak for others, but i find it to be the most offensive behavior in the room, just so you are aware. now moving onto the topic:

People Are criticizing his poor response, they are not blaming him for the virus, be clear in your language. i will outline this for you one more time and i will let you know right now that i am sitting next to an actual expert in this, please do keep that in mind, because sometimes people actually are the experts, even on the internet on a virtual group ride with bicycle enthusiasts. she is after all in charge of writing the policy and structures for an entire hospital system and valley. That many people trust her expertise. shes not sleeping much, because shes busy reading articles, speaking to experts around the country on the phone, and ive been calling people on the telephone to help track the spread of the disease here in our valley while you have been reading breitbart to find a win you can get in this room.
I will outline this for you simply so you can see the places where there is fault with trump. Obviously not all of the fault is his, again, that would be foolish to suggest, and nobody here has suggested such a thing.

back in the last week of January, Trump began by offering the idea this was a hoax, a democratic one even. so to begin, he offered nothing but division, right? instead of seeing this as one true opportunity to bring sides and people together, he decided it would be better for tv to call the democrats the enemy and the virus a hoax.

Trump also said there was one case, we have it under control, its not anything to worry about. this is another lie, and another delay.

when asked about masks and protective equipment in one of the first interviews, he lied and deflected about companies prioritizing the manufacture of those at the time, perhaps that has since changed, but at first it was a lie and a delay.

Trump has made false claims about the medicines that may or may not be used to fight the disease, as well as lies about testing, lies about vaccinations, and lies about timelines. one of this helps any health care worker treat patients nor curb the virus.

The coronavirus is under control and the stock market is looking great to me (literally this is when everyone found out he was lying, and his lies created uncertainty causing even more chaos in the financial markets than necessary.

the 15 cases will soon be zero

we are going down now, not up.

one day it will be like a miracle, it will disappear.

we re ordering a lot of supplies, we are ordering elements that we would not normally order.

take a flu vaccine, dont you think that will have a little effect on the corona virus?

anyone that needs a test gets a test, and the tests are perfect! (people here, doctors that work at the hospital are having trouble getting tested. and the tests are not perfect, they take 8 to 10 days and many of the intial test kits were incomplete and non usable. just more lies.

i like this stuff, i really get it, people are surprised i get it. he doesnt get it, but if he did, yes, we would all be shocked.

we have a perfectly (theres that word again, anything anyone claims is perfect is a lie by default, no such thing) coordinated and fine tuned attack on corona. (this isnt a war, you dont attack it, its attacking us)

the fake news media and the democrats are doing everything they can to make corona virus worse. (this is actually insane and dangerous)

march 10, stay calm and it will jyst go away

March 13 more than 6 weeks after saying it was a hoax, he finally declared national emergency.

Now i am not allowed to talk trump around my wife since monday, since her safety was put in danger by a person repeating the rhetoric of trump's hoax. her job is harder than it needs to be because of trump, period. because he delayed, and because he pits us purposely against one another. and people are now seeing enemies in this instead of allies, because instead of offering words of togetherness, your current choice for leader offers nothing but divisive words. he could have called o an end to petty partisan nonsense and been an adult, but he choose not to, he choose to be himself, a provacateur and showman, and conartist and salesman.

Im not gonna pretend like im trying to convince you of anything here, despite your previous hints, your mind is obviously made up. you apparently still thinking winning is the point.

I see, my replies are "unproductive"... Do you think your long winded rants actually accomplish anything but you venting?

You continue to blame every situation on Trump, sorry your wife is having issues - my wife is also in the medical field, but honestly, whatever negative situation presents itself, you blame the President. Period. End of your closed minded single focus Trump to blame discussion.

And he DID call for the partisan nonsense to stop, but the house and senate continue to be who they are. Don't blame Trump, blame the other elected officials. No, it's easier for you to shift into "Trump Rage".

I suppose it's his fault the bill Nancy & Co presented was filled with non-virus objectives. Funny, you seem to ignore that.

Winning IS the point, because the day Trump won, the Never Trumpers have done everything in their power to divide and try to get him out. Russia anyone? Impeachment baloney?

The Dems want to win. You want Trump to lose. Yeah, my friend, it is about winning. Elections have consequences - remember that statement from a past winner?

I love how EVERYONE is playing Monday morning Presidential quarterback on how the Government should be acting in this epidemic.

No, me saying he's going to win again isn't trolling, maybe it's me venting about how the Dems could not find a candidate capable of beating him (who should be so easy to beat, according to ALL the awful things he's done). Biden or Bernie? Those 2 are a better solution? We'll see.

[guido]

The Coronavirus Crisis and the Trump O’Clock Follies | The New Yorker

[mzilliox]

I see, my replies are "unproductive"... Do you think your long winded rants actually accomplish anything but you venting?
-it doesnt really matter does it, but yes, i think the information in some of my posts is useful, and some folks have messaged me words of encouragement, so i guess they arent totally pointless. you respond to them, which means you read them, and if you read them, you get the information from them. i know for a fact there is nothing anyone can say in here to change your mind, thats not the intent. again, you take things out of context man. calling one of your posts unproductive doesnt mean all of them are, why do you play this game?

You continue to blame every situation on Trump, sorry your wife is having issues - my wife is also in the medical field, but honestly, whatever negative situation presents itself, you blame the President. Period. End of your closed minded single focus Trump to blame discussion.
No, i dont blame everything on trump, thats not at all factual, but in trump topics, i speak about his inadequacies. again, you are ignoring any nuance at all, and you do this so often. My wife is an expert in this field, shes not just having issues, dont downplay things to that degree, this is serious. Trump's inaction and lack of leadership is costing these folks, period, do not attempt to dismiss or deny that fact.

And he DID call for the partisan nonsense to stop, but the house and senate continue to be who they are. Don't blame Trump, blame the other elected officials. No, it's easier for you to shift into "Trump Rage".
-no he did not, he immediately called this a democratic hoax. he immediately tried to place the democrats as his enemy. he has never made any sort of genuine gesture of togetherness. The house and senate are their own folks, and the republicans are cowards who fall into line with trump, blaming senators is blaming trump, surely this is quite clear at this point.

I suppose it's his fault the bill Nancy & Co presented was filled with non-virus objectives. Funny, you seem to ignore that.
-you are aware that that bill is now better for them having delayed and improved it... dont pretend otherwise, the bill is now a better bill, can you honestly say its not? as far as ignoring it, this is also a lie. I already addressed this as did others, or is your memory so short? we can go bring up the quotes about how you misinterpreted the article you posted again if you want to rehash that.

Winning IS the point, because the day Trump won, the Never Trumpers have done everything in their power to divide and try to get him out. Russia anyone? Impeachment baloney?
-winning is the point to you, the point to me is making good choices that improve life for humans. this is one thing we do not have in common, i dont understand this part of you or identify with it. thats fine, we are different, but you dont win at corona virus, you play well and hope for the best.

The Dems want to win. You want Trump to lose. Yeah, my friend, it is about winning. Elections have consequences - remember that statement from a past winner?
we are speaking about covid responses in here, forgive me if i dont care about yoru silly election predictions, i find them irrelevant right now

I love how EVERYONE is playing Monday morning Presidential quarterback on how the Government should be acting in this epidemic.
-sir, respectfully, my position is not armchair quarterback, and i have stated this. and its Thursday, keep up. YOU are playing armchair quarterback on this topic, you bring no expertise right? and you are treating this like football, cheering for your favorite team. I happen to live with an expert, I repeat this, because you seem to not be paying attention. she doesnt just "work in healthcare" man, shes a masters in public health and surgeon. this is literally her thing. so my insights as to the poor handling of this are that of an expert.

No, me saying he's going to win again isn't trolling, maybe it's me venting about how the Dems could not find a candidate capable of beating him (who should be so easy to beat, according to ALL the awful things he's done). Biden or Bernie? Those 2 are a better solution? We'll see.
-yes, either are a better solution, Biden a less better solution, but better none the less. Bernie has shown leadership already during this, he would quite obviously be doing a better job. anyone at all with a tendency to listen would be doing a better job. your opinions may tell you gut feelings are better than data and experts, but reality and statistics have proven that wrong every time.

[Mark Kelly]

To add the the litany of 45's lies and obfuscations: his claim that the uptick in US case numbers is "a tribute to our testing" is downright false and dangerous.

As posted back somewhere in this thread an estimate of caseload can be back calculated from total deaths. Total deaths and total cases are showing the same doubling time (about 2.4 days, equivalent to x 10 in eight days). If these numbers are still current a factor of 1000 or more is appropriate, so the total number of actual cases is likely to be a million or more.

[Corso]

As always, we must agree to disagree. I could debate several of your "facts", but it's late and I'm tired.

Good for your wife, I'm impressed with her accomplishments. But tell me, if she was a Republican I bet she'd have a different view . I bet one could find many other surgeons who lean to the right, with an contrasting opinion.

I have a daughter with Lupus, and spend lot's of time with doctors/insurance companies/specialists. My wife also has a Masters in elder care and is an Executive Director of a health facility. Guess what? Some lower wage employees have already told her they may stay home as they may make more money with the proposed stimulus than having to work.

Interesting twist, no?

[mzilliox]

As always, we must agree to disagree. I could debate several of your "facts", but it's late and I'm tired.

Good for your wife, I'm impressed with her accomplishments. But tell me, if she was a Republican I bet she'd have a different view . I bet one could find many other surgeons who lean to the right, with an contrasting opinion.

I have a daughter with Lupus, and spend lot's of time with doctors/insurance companies/specialists. My wife also has a Masters in elder care and is an Executive Director of a health facility. Guess what? Some lower wage employees have already told her they may stay home as they may make more money with the proposed stimulus than having to work.

Interesting twist, no?

no. and theres a hospital full of republicans here who dont let their party affiliation interfere with truth, they are pissed, even the Mormons.

[caleb]

The party in power always wants "bipartisanship," i.e. you do what I want.

The minority party will object, but usually give in to appeals to national emergency. See Republicans, circa 2008-2009, and before that Democrats in 2001.

The circumstances do not change the partisan dynamic, they only change who wants what.

As for what happened in the past couple days, the Democrats played pattycake for 3x the money the Republicans held at gunpoint during the last bailout. If we're grading by Tea Party standards, I'd give them a gold star for behaving in the public interest.

[zachateseverything]

As always, we must agree to disagree. I could debate several of your "facts", but it's late and I'm tired.

Good for your wife, I'm impressed with her accomplishments. But tell me, if she was a Republican I bet she'd have a different view . I bet one could find many other surgeons who lean to the right, with an contrasting opinion.

I have a daughter with Lupus, and spend lot's of time with doctors/insurance companies/specialists. My wife also has a Masters in elder care and is an Executive Director of a health facility. Guess what? Some lower wage employees have already told her they may stay home as they may make more money with the proposed stimulus than having to work.

Interesting twist, no?

those lower wage employees are likely to be shocked when they find out they don't qualify for unemployment.

[caleb]

3.3 million people filed first time claims for unemployment last week. That's the most by far, ever.

The stock market then went up 6%.

I cannot imagine two numbers that more illustrate the basic problem of our times: millions of people are filing for unemployment, and simultaneously the market is rejoicing.

[caleb]

Guess what? Some lower wage employees have already told her they may stay home as they may make more money with the proposed stimulus than having to work.

Interesting twist, no?

You can't choose to stay home to collect unemployment, you have to be laid off.

There's no possibility of unemployment benefits paying out more than an existing job, because if you quit a job voluntarily you won't get the benefits.

The Welfare Queen myth circa 1996 sure dies a slow death, or maybe just has nine lives on the right.

[theflashunc]

I think it’s fairly obvious that no one in power gives a shit about the value of a dollar, since they all just agreed by 96-0 to print $2 trillion (=10% of US GDP). It’s a slippery slope. Not that I see a lot of better options... but... what stops us from printing another $2 trillion in six months? When does it stop? Why can’t we just do this all the time?

With inflation currently where it's at...very little actually. And we'll be printing a helluva lot more than $2 trillion before all this is done.

[vertical_doug]

3.3 million people filed first time claims for unemployment last week. That's the most by far, ever.

The stock market then went up 6%.

I cannot imagine two numbers that more illustrate the basic problem of our times: millions of people are filing for unemployment, and simultaneously the market is rejoicing.

Today's number is just the confirmed data that has already been much discussed in the markets for the past few weeks. Goldman had a Sunday night conference call on 3/15 (1500 participants called in) which discussed economic predictions, infection rates etc etc. It was very bleak and that forecast is what helped stoke the panic on Monday morning. There is a range of projections for unemployment over the next few months ranging from 11mm to 30% of the work force. The worst month in the 2008/2009 financial crisis was -800,000 and the total job losses from Feb 2008 until October 2009 were 7.1mm or so. (I could pull the revised data and give you exact number, but I just need to hit the side of the barn, don't need a bullseye)

A lot of the action in the market is just technical now as it is Quarter End and asset managers will have to adjust their portfolio weightings as risk weights have changed.

The ultimate hurdle will be earnings in Q2. General Mills CEO said 90% of stores handling their food products were open, but uptake has been slow and sales are only about 50% of normal. This is the risk for specific companies as people's buying habits will take time to return if at all. They will reevaluate some material wants as their perspective on life has changed.

[vertical_doug]

To add the the litany of 45's lies and obfuscations: his claim that the uptick in US case numbers is "a tribute to our testing" is downright false and dangerous.

As posted back somewhere in this thread an estimate of caseload can be back calculated from total deaths. Total deaths and total cases are showing the same doubling time (about 2.4 days, equivalent to x 10 in eight days). If these numbers are still current a factor of 1000 or more is appropriate, so the total number of actual cases is likely to be a million or more.

And as you take the next level of data, 12% of New York cases need hospitalization and 25% of those need a ventilator. So even with the 4000 extra ventilators, at those growth rates you get a few extra days. That's the bottleneck and the point that will effect the outcome changing from a 1% to higher Italian curve model. I think they need the curve to flatten before 300k. I am optimistic that will happen. I don't know what more Cuomo can do. He did get shame the FEDGOV to send the 4000 instead of the 400 they were promising.