Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

[Saab2000]

I just watched this on another website and was about to share it here.

I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend each and every one of us white guys shut up and listen to her. She is articulate, she is logical, she is absolutely righteously furious.

She’s absolutely correct in what she says. I got the same story a few years ago from a black friend of mine. He’s a cyclist and runs in some of the same circles I run in. He’s a bit less vociferous in his delivery but the message is largely the same.

How do we move forward? She’s right about the systemic economic inequality. I understand the concept of privilege better than I did a few years ago. Her Monopoly analogy is absolutely spot on.

I think acknowledgement of the problem is a first step. The other day the commissioner of the NFL made a statement that wouldn’t have been made a month ago. A month ago it would have cost him his job. But he needs to go further and say the name Colin Kaepernick. Still, his statement was progress in an organization that has struggled with racial inequality forever. Why does the Rooney Rule exist?

But what’s next? I acknowledge she’s right but I also think that if we accept her sentiment that it’s OK to, literally, burn it down only a literal wasteland will remain. Is that going to benefit anyone? Because I’d bet Target isn’t moving back into the Hiawatha and Lake St. neighborhood.

Today I drove past a burned out Family Dollar store in Aurora, IL. How many people on this forum are Family Dollar shoppers? I’d guess it’s not a frequent destination for most of us. The people in that neighborhood no longer have that store. That store is about 8 miles west of my house and my observation tells me it’s a majority Hispanic neighborhood.

What’s next? We all need to do better. What that means isn’t always easy to define even if the societal issue is easy to see.

Decades of Democrats in office in Minneapolis didn’t prevent that police department from becoming a toxic dumpster fire. So just saying we’re going to vote a certain way doesn’t mean anything. It’s complicated and I’ll be the first to admit I’m not exactly sure I know what I personally can do. But somehow we need to do better. All of us.

[monadnocky]

well it seems us liberals have coined yet another catch phrase that doesn't mean what it sounds like it means: "defund the police!". Another phrase for which the meaning will be debated and twisted by the right and used against the dems in November. Another phrase like "free college!" or "tax the rich!" which implies the very most extreme meaning while not actually meaning that at all, depending on who you ask. Maybe we should focus on catch phrases that explicitly imply realistic and attainable goals for political change. Phrases like "demilitarize the police", or "publicly funded college", or "tax excess wealth" come to mind. But we've got an election to lose in November so it's no surprise.

I'm sure you watched the John Oliver clip about this (I think it was last night's episode), but he brilliantly explains this (i.e., "defunding the police") in a manner that totally makes sense.

edit: nvm, I see someone already posted the clip a few replies back.

[bcm119]

I'm sure you watched the John Oliver clip about this (I think it was last night's episode), but he brilliantly explains this (i.e., "defunding the police") in a manner that totally makes sense.

edit: nvm, I see someone already posted the clip a few replies back.

That's kind of my point. Let's face the reality-- we're in Plan D of winning this election in November, ie. Joe Biden, success of which is going to rely on low information voters in the middle. The idea of a young surge of progressive voters saving us is now history. Low information voters in the middle-- the aunt Karens and Uncle Eddies out there-- shouldn't have to listen to John Oliver to get the gist of a liberal policy idea. "Defund the Police" sounds an awful lot like cutting the police budget to zero, and that means Uncle Eddie's brother Johnny Cop might lose his job. Why can't liberals come up with catch phrases that are more intuitive and don't need implied extremism to be explained away? Why must every idea be represented by a slogan that's essentially a softball lobbed right over Fox News' home plate?

[chasea]

That's kind of my point. Let's face the reality-- we're in Plan D of winning this election in November, ie. Joe Biden, success of which is going to rely on low information voters in the middle. The idea of a young surge of progressive voters saving us is now history. Low information voters in the middle-- the aunt Karens and Uncle Eddies out there-- shouldn't have to listen to John Oliver to get the gist of a liberal policy idea. "Defund the Police" sounds an awful lot like cutting the police budget to zero, and that means Uncle Eddie's brother Johnny Cop might lose his job. Why can't liberals come up with catch phrases that are more intuitive and don't need implied extremism to be explained away? Why must every idea be represented by a slogan that's essentially a softball lobbed right over Fox News' home plate?

If they can't see the message and interpret the message then they can't do it will "Black Lives" v "All Lives." And they need to learn.

Honestly, I'm not out here trying to get Biden to win this election. Democratic reform is about as good as police reform to me. It's a nice thought and it's never gonna happen. I'm out here trying to fight systemic racism. That comes in the form of income inequality. And Pelosi owns 45 mil in real estate. She is a capital-C Capitalist. Nice kente cloth though.

Progress is messy. It's not a straight line. But if you think Biden is a first step you are kidding yourself. The democrats need to radicalize. They do not need to pander to centrists. Centrists don't really stand for much and they will fall in line. Forget sentiment, let's get some real progress .

[HorsCat]

America is a center right country. Radicalizing left - now - will result in Republicans holding on to more power than they deserve. My ideals tilt left; we're only ever going to get there incrementally. The sea change we appear to be seeing now vis-a-vis race relations and the racism that has undergirded American politics and civil society continuously for generations may appear to be a radical shift but in fact it is simply the next step in incremental change that has itself been occurring for generations.

[sk_tle]

America is a center right country. Radicalizing left - now - will result in Republicans holding on to more power than they deserve. My ideals tilt left; we're only ever going to get there incrementally. The sea change we appear to be seeing now vis-a-vis race relations and the racism that has undergirded American politics and civil society continuously for generations may appear to be a radical shift but in fact it is simply the next step in incremental change that has itself been occurring for generations.

This. Republicans call socialist what in europe we call center-right. They just don't even know what it means. To them communism is an insult while it is in theory a very nice idea that is simply not applicable in a free country because there will always be stupid people to ruin it for the rest of us.

[davids]

If they can't see the message and interpret the message then they can't do it will "Black Lives" v "All Lives." And they need to learn.

Honestly, I'm not out here trying to get Biden to win this election. Democratic reform is about as good as police reform to me. It's a nice thought and it's never gonna happen. I'm out here trying to fight systemic racism. That comes in the form of income inequality. And Pelosi owns 45 mil in real estate. She is a capital-C Capitalist. Nice kente cloth though.

Progress is messy. It's not a straight line. But if you think Biden is a first step you are kidding yourself. The democrats need to radicalize. They do not need to pander to centrists. Centrists don't really stand for much and they will fall in line. Forget sentiment, let's get some real progress .

If the Democrats radicalize - and I'm not sure what exactly that means - they will lose the Presidency and the Senate. A dramatic progressive agenda works in many districts, and even a few states. Hey, Warren is my Senator and Pressley's district ends a few blocks away from me. And I think they're fantastic. But their agenda and policies don't fly in a lot of this country and I think you know it too. Centrists won't fall into line with nationalizing healthcare, let alone whatever you're thinking of as "radical". They will stay home.

A Biden presidency and Democratic Congress are the baseline of what our nation, and our world, needs to begin to move forward. And the United States does not get there with a radical national agenda.

It is good to see the national conversation opening up to these issues in a way I can't ever remember. I have more than a little hope that we can begin bending the arc back towards justice. But that's how this works. Incrementalism or chaos. Accept it and work for progress.

Please take a few minutes and consider how Trump will act if he wins a second term. And if he has McConnell to continue enabling him. He will be unleashed and will wreak another level of damage on us and the world.


...So who do you like for VP?

[Saab2000]

This. Republicans call socialist what in europe we call center-right. They just don't even know what it means. To them communism is an insult.....

This is spot on correct. My sister-in-law grew up in Erfurt in what was then East Germany. She knows what socialism or communism and totalitarianism mean in the worst ways. How these terms are used in the US is laughable except the ignorance of the users becomes clear and ignorance is rarely funny.

[chasea]

If the Democrats radicalize - and I'm not sure what exactly that means - they will lose the Presidency and the Senate. A dramatic progressive agenda works in many districts, and even a few states. Hey, Warren is my Senator and Pressley's district ends a few blocks away from me. And I think they're fantastic. But their agenda and policies don't fly in a lot of this country and I think you know it too. Centrists won't fall into line with nationalizing healthcare, let alone whatever you're thinking of as "radical". They will stay home.

A Biden presidency and Democratic Congress are the baseline of what our nation, and our world, needs to begin to move forward. And the United States does not get there with a radical national agenda.

It is good to see the national conversation opening up to these issues in a way I can't ever remember. I have more than a little hope that we can begin bending the arc back towards justice. But that's how this works. Incrementalism or chaos. Accept it and work for progress.

Please take a few minutes and consider how Trump will act if he wins a second term. And if he has McConnell to continue enabling him. He will be unleashed and will wreak another level of damage on us and the world.


...So who do you like for VP?

21 million out of "work" today - lets not kid ourselves, it was multiple part-time jobs that pay a less than living wage with no benefits for most of us- with a massive second wave of the virus coming. November is going have a record number of people stuck at home with nothing to do but vote by mail.

And we're pitching MAGA-Lite?

[davids]

21 million out of "work" today - lets not kid ourselves, it was multiple part-time jobs that pay below minimum wage with no benefits for most of us- with a massive second wave of the virus coming. November is going have a record number of people stuck at home with nothing to do but vote by mail.

And we're pitching MAGA-Lite?

"MAGA-Lite", huh?

So what, practically, are you suggesting?

[bcm119]

And we're pitching MAGA-Lite?

Whatever you want to call it, yes, that's what we're pitching. That or Trump. One of those is definitely, positively, going to be the president for the next 4 years. And one option is worse than the other. And it's your civic responsibility to weigh in on it like an adult.

[chasea]

"We say 'representative government' but we don't really meant it because we're adults."

It isn't the left that's gonna lose the election in November. It's y'all.

[chasea]

I just watched this on another website and was about to share it here.

I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend each and every one of us white guys shut up and listen to her. Her argument is reasonable, she is logical and she is absolutely righteously furious.

I mean. What's your takeaway here?

[bcm119]

"We say 'representative government' but we don't really meant it because we're adults."

It isn't the left that's gonna lose the election in November. It's y'all.

I am the left. Let me in on the winning strategy.

[ZenNMotion]

I just watched this on another website and was about to share it here.

I strongly, strongly, strongly recommend each and every one of us white guys shut up and listen to her. Her argument is reasonable, she is logical and she is absolutely righteously furious.

Thank you.

[ZenNMotion]

If the Democrats radicalize - and I'm not sure what exactly that means - they will lose the Presidency and the Senate. A dramatic progressive agenda works in many districts, and even a few states. Hey, Warren is my Senator and Pressley's district ends a few blocks away from me. And I think they're fantastic. But their agenda and policies don't fly in a lot of this country and I think you know it too. Centrists won't fall into line with nationalizing healthcare, let alone whatever you're thinking of as "radical". They will stay home.

A Biden presidency and Democratic Congress are the baseline of what our nation, and our world, needs to begin to move forward. And the United States does not get there with a radical national agenda.

It is good to see the national conversation opening up to these issues in a way I can't ever remember. I have more than a little hope that we can begin bending the arc back towards justice. But that's how this works. Incrementalism or chaos. Accept it and work for progress.

Please take a few minutes and consider how Trump will act if he wins a second term. And if he has McConnell to continue enabling him. He will be unleashed and will wreak another level of damage on us and the world.


...So who do you like for VP?

Respectfully disagree on some points. First, I don't see progress toward justice as an arc. Rather, it's stairsteps that are sequenced by significant events, and we are in the process of rapid change (for better or worse, hopefully better) due to the pandemic, social media sunlighting inequality (specifically police oppression of POC), and I will add climate (off the front page temporarily but just until the next set of disasters). Add secondary domino effects of unemployment, exacerbated healthcare access, growing poverty, food insecurity and housing. Coming soon are related events to conflict (domestic- those confederate treason flages aren't going anywhere) as well as international war and climate refugees, and increasingly scarce resources including water, land and energy. These are all mutual multipliers- and incremental responses are not going to get us to where we need to go, too little, too late. These events are opportunities for change if we don't piss them away with incrementalism. Incrementalism is white guy feel-good security (I say that as a risk-averse white guy). But it won't take us to a better future in the time frame we have to work with. We need to stop hyperfocusing on Trump et al and look at the systems that allow them to grow like the black mold in post-Katrina abandoned houses (spent some time cleaning up a neighborhood down there still horrible vivid memories of failed "incremental" response). I'll support Biden and the centrists because for the moment I have to; there is no viable alternative at the national level, but I'll yell and push like hell for more systems-based approaches and policies. Fuck the word "radical"-- I hate it, the connotation is naivete and failure, but FWIW many/most defining social movements were seen in real time as "radical", but looking back are often seen as absolute inevitable common sense. I prefer "progressive" as in meaningful future-looking, realistic (given the real timeline driven by elements largely outside our control). I'm hugely disappointed in our choice for Pres. in Biden- I do think he can get the job (election) done, but I have little faith as to what he can do afterward. We had so many better choices, and they got squashed in the system of centrist, incremental mumbo jumbo that contributed to the dicey situation we are now in.

[ides1056]

Jesus was a radical. He was one of a multitude hung on a cross by the Romans.

[chasea]

RTJ4 released this wekk. Timely



The way I see it, you're probably freest from the ages one to four
Around the age of five you're shipped away for your body to be stored
They promise education, but really they give you tests and scores
And they predictin' prison population by who scoring the lowest
And usually the lowest scores the poorest and they look like me
And every day on evening news they feed you fear for free
And you so numb you watch the cops choke out a man like me
And 'til my voice goes from a shriek to whisper, "I can't breathe"
And you sit there in the house on couch and watch it on TV
The most you give's a Twitter rant and call it a tragedy
But truly the travesty, you've been robbed of your empathy
Replaced it with apathy, I wish I could magically
Fast forward the future so then you can face it
And see how fucked up it'll be
I promise I'm honest, they coming for you
The day after they comin' for me
I'm readin' Chomsky, I read Bukowski
I'm layin' low for a week
I said somethin' on behalf of my people
And I popped up in Wikileaks
Thank God that I'm covered, the devil can smother
And you know the evil don't sleep
Dick Gregory told me a couple of secrets before he laid down in his grave
All of us serve the same masters, all of us nothin' but slaves
Never forget in the story of Jesus, the hero was killed by the state

[caleb]

The protests in both volume and size would indicate the number of citizens who find police forces as "the right sort of people" is shrinking.

Perhaps out of all the cities in this big country, one town (one!) will really reform its police department. Even New York and LA are just engaging in administrative allowance docking.

When I back away from the Twittermachine and look out at the world, I get the feeling that a large bunch of Americans are exhausted and can't much see past getting back to regular work and getting their kids back to school or daycare.

Maybe I'm cynical, but it sure seems like the white privilege of people putting their heads down and letting this blow by is in full force. I'd love to be wrong.

[mjbabcock]

RTJ4 released this wekk. Timely




And you sit there in the house on couch and watch it on TV
The most you give's a Twitter rant and call it a tragedy
But truly the travesty, you've been robbed of your empathy
Replaced it with apathy, I wish I could magically
Fast forward the future so then you can face it
And see how fucked up it'll be
I promise I'm honest, they coming for you

I bought the album. Totally offensive bullshit. I posted an extensive twitter rant about it...oh, wait.

Amazing album.