Who will challenge Trump? Who you like?

[zachateseverything]

Yes, it's totally a vast conspiracy and not just the narrowing of the field as candidates dropped out after realizing they didn't have a path to the nomination and broad support forming around someone only slightly left of center.

[Blue Jays]

Why have rules been changed such that Representative Gabbard could not debate onstage?

[theflashunc]

Yes, it's totally a vast conspiracy and not just the narrowing of the field as candidates dropped out after realizing they didn't have a path to the nomination and broad support forming around someone only slightly left of center.

Along with the two major hypotheses of the Sanders campaign -- attracting young people to the polls and a unique appeal to white working class voters -- simply not panning out.

He clearly appeals to what will be the future of the party, and it's on Biden to start that outreach in this coalition he has, but Bernie doesn't have much of an argument left that he's the guy for the general election.

[jclay]

Trump has been receiving the shaft from the media while others have skated, just as you've posted here. I've "defended" the President often, but not particularly because of him, but always wanting to point out the double standard of media treatment he's received. I hope maybe at least you can now understand where I've been coming from.

How has the media been shafting Trump?? Serious Q.

Are they lying or misrepresenting his actions and statements?

Is, for example, pointing out that he's been playing an awful lot of golf (more than any other prez I think - am I wrong?), on the heels of committing that he's be too busy to do so?

I don't see it.

As an aside, in an exit interview some guy in Michigan said he voted for Biden 'cause Bernie is too "socialist" and then described a few changes he'd like to see in the USA. You guessed it; he could have copied/pasted them from Bernie's policy proposal page and from the history of his policy stances, and you won't see them on Biden's CV.

It's people like that, and there are tens of millions in the US, who may drive me to a sanatorium. So far I've been able to keep my reactions to unintelligible mumblings, imperceptibly shaking my head in wonderment, and the odd post here/there.

On one of my last engineering projects prior to retirement I was called in for senior review of a final process plant design. I pointed out some fundamental process flow and control changes that would have simplified the facility and reduced cost to the customer by 30% (seriously). The design team of about a dozen other engineers said it wouldn't work. About six months after the facility had been running (poorly) I got a call from the lead engineer about another matter. After finishing whatever we were discussing he said, "remember the XYZ project? You were dead right". Except for the call that wasn't the first time something like that had happened. Seeing the need for changes before the herd does is, personally, emotionally and career-wise, costly. The good news as it relates to this thread is that Bernie has introduced the larger population to some important issues that need to be addressed and I don't think they will be put back in the bottle. But it must be off the charts disappointing and frustrating to him, to know that we will wait longer, that our country will continue to engage in destructive (self and otherwise) behaviour for a while longer.

[zachateseverything]

How has the media been shafting Trump?? Serious Q.

Are they lying or misrepresenting his actions and statements?

Is, for example, pointing out that he's been playing an awful lot of golf (more than any other prez I think - am I wrong?), on the heels of committing that he's be too busy to do so?

I don't see it.

As an aside, in an exit interview some guy in Michigan said he voted for Biden 'cause Bernie is too "socialist" and then described a few changes he'd like to see in the USA. You guessed it; he could have copied/pasted them from Bernie's policy proposal page and from the history of his policy stances, and you won't see them on Biden's CV.

It's people like that, and there are tens of millions in the US, who may drive me to a sanatorium. So far I've been able to keep my reactions to unintelligible mumblings, imperceptibly shaking my head in wonderment, and the odd post here/there.

On one of my last engineering projects prior to retirement I was called in for senior review of a final process plant design. I pointed out some fundamental process flow and control changes that would have simplified the facility and reduced cost to the customer by 30% (seriously). The design team of about a dozen other engineers said it wouldn't work. About six months after the facility had been running (poorly) I got a call from the lead engineer about another matter. After finishing whatever we were discussing he said, "remember the XYZ project? You were dead right". Except for the call that wasn't the first time something like that had happened. Seeing the need for changes before the herd does is, personally, emotionally and career-wise, costly. The good news as it relates to this thread is that Bernie has introduced the larger population to some important issues that need to be addressed and I don't think they will be put back in the bottle. But it must be off the charts disappointing and frustrating to him, to know that we will wait longer, that our country will continue to engage in destructive (self and otherwise) behaviour for a while longer.

I asked this earlier in the thread and didn't get a response from anyone. What Sanders policy proposals would be a hard veto from a President Biden if the bill made it's way through the House and Senate?

[j44ke]

Doesn't matter if you have the best political platform ever in the history of political platforms, you still have to get the people to vote for you. See: camels, water and drinking.

[mzilliox]

How has the media been shafting Trump?? Serious Q.

Are they lying or misrepresenting his actions and statements?

Is, for example, pointing out that he's been playing an awful lot of golf (more than any other prez I think - am I wrong?), on the heels of committing that he's be too busy to do so?

I don't see it.

As an aside, in an exit interview some guy in Michigan said he voted for Biden 'cause Bernie is too "socialist" and then described a few changes he'd like to see in the USA. You guessed it; he could have copied/pasted them from Bernie's policy proposal page and from the history of his policy stances, and you won't see them on Biden's CV.

It's people like that, and there are tens of millions in the US, who may drive me to a sanatorium. So far I've been able to keep my reactions to unintelligible mumblings, imperceptibly shaking my head in wonderment, and the odd post here/there.

On one of my last engineering projects prior to retirement I was called in for senior review of a final process plant design. I pointed out some fundamental process flow and control changes that would have simplified the facility and reduced cost to the customer by 30% (seriously). The design team of about a dozen other engineers said it wouldn't work. About six months after the facility had been running (poorly) I got a call from the lead engineer about another matter. After finishing whatever we were discussing he said, "remember the XYZ project? You were dead right". Except for the call that wasn't the first time something like that had happened. Seeing the need for changes before the herd does is, personally, emotionally and career-wise, costly. The good news as it relates to this thread is that Bernie has introduced the larger population to some important issues that need to be addressed and I don't think they will be put back in the bottle. But it must be off the charts disappointing and frustrating to him, to know that we will wait longer, that our country will continue to engage in destructive (self and otherwise) behaviour for a while longer.

The disconnect is frustrating. Even in here folks let out a tidbit of policy they may desire, but if you point out there is no way they will get that from any republican let alone trump, crickets.

The portrayal of trump has actually been good. not unfair. they make him look less horrible at this than he actually is. Folks, Trump does these things, all the time, reporting on them is not unfair, its the media doing their job. He specifically tries to get himself on the news, all of the time, this is his doing. He wants to be the story, all of the time, theres no denying this, he says it.

Now the Fox News polls are showing anyone will beat Trump in the next election.

And the majority of economists are not optimistic about your 401k, things are rosey as eh?

[jclay]

Doesn't matter if you have the best political platform ever in the history of political platforms, you still have to get the people to vote for you. See: camels, water and drinking.

True fact; but we're supposed to be a little smarter than your average camel.

[Corso]

How has the media been shafting Trump?? Serious Q.

Are they lying or misrepresenting his actions and statements?

Is, for example, pointing out that he's been playing an awful lot of golf (more than any other prez I think - am I wrong?), on the heels of committing that he's be too busy to do so?

I don't see it.

I don't think you ever will see it either John. It would be like me being Columbus trying to convince the court that the world isn't flat.

One example: Trump jokes "maybe the they can find her missing emails" and the press runs with TRUMP ASKS RUSSIANS TO INVESTIGATE HILLARY...

Golf? I think he's on track with the last President, who no one on this site ever complained about his golfing.
See what I mean? You set the table for that comparison, which aligns with my ongoing "Trump does it = bad, others do it = meh, what's the big deal"

[HorsCat]

I don't think you ever will see it either John. It would be like me being Columbus trying to convince the court that the world isn't flat.

One example: Trump jokes "maybe the they can find her missing emails" and the press runs with TRUMP ASKS RUSSIANS TO INVESTIGATE HILLARY...

Golf? I think he's on track with the last President, who no one on this site ever complained about his golfing.
See what I mean? You set the table for that comparison, which aligns with my ongoing "Trump does it = bad, others do it = meh, what's the big deal"

Obama didn't campaign for president claiming he would be too busy to ever play golf. Trump did. One area where Trump definitely has Obama beat is rounds played. Also monies generated by fleecing the public for staying and playing at self-owned properties. The facts are there for you, if you're inclined to seek them out. See, eg, Trump Golf Count. So, too, Trump and Russia, but that may be too dense: https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf.

"Fun stats" from the golf count website:

Days Trump has spent at Mar a Lago:
127
Cost of flights to Mar a Lago (30 so far):*
~$59,110,000
Days Trump has spent at Bedminster:
75
Cost of flights to Bedminster (23 so far):*
~$18,375,500
Trump has visited his clubs once every this many days since his inauguration:
4.6
Projected visits to golf clubs in four years:
315
Projected visits in eight years:
629
Total times Obama played golf during his eight year Presidency:
306

[j44ke]

True fact; but we're supposed to be a little smarter than your average camel.

I have been a lifelong Democrat and very active in politics, but I am getting tired of the argument that the voter is stupid.

To me that guy is saying he doesn't like Sanders. Good politics, doesn't like the guy. Put a microphone in his face, and he uses the word "Socialist" to say "doesn't like" because he doesn't want to sound stupid. But he knows what he's thinking and he knows how he feels about Sanders. Like I said, good politics, doesn't like the guy.

Trump voters get chastised for not caring about the character of their candidate. Well, here's a guy who might actually care about things like character. Or personality. And he doesn't want to vote for someone who rubs him the wrong way.

Maybe Sanders' ideas are the future of the Democratic Party, but Sanders' time as the one to advance them has come and gone. I think Biden's time has come and gone, but I guess I'm wrong and he's got one last shot at it.

[thollandpe]

The facts are there for you, if you're inclined to seek them out. See, eg, Trump Golf Count.

So the guy who tweeted so many jabs about Obama playing golf while President, is now President and playing golf twice as often as Obama did?

Twice as often?

[theflashunc]

I don't think you ever will see it either John. It would be like me being Columbus trying to convince the court that the world isn't flat.

One example: Trump jokes "maybe the they can find her missing emails" and the press runs with TRUMP ASKS RUSSIANS TO INVESTIGATE HILLARY...

Golf? I think he's on track with the last President, who no one on this site ever complained about his golfing.
See what I mean? You set the table for that comparison, which aligns with my ongoing "Trump does it = bad, others do it = meh, what's the big deal"

Show me any Presidential candidate dating back to, well ever, asking on TV for a global adversary to go find dirt on their opponent during the campaign.

"Jokes." That dog don't hunt.

If it was a joke, it means he's incredibly sloppy with his language and doesn't understand his position and place of power that words like that would have. And the alternative is it wasn't a joke, and he was asking for foreign aid in an election on television.

Both are pretty clearly disqualifications for the office. Because the latter is a crime and makes him a potential asset of a foreign government, and the former means he's a moron.

[jclay]

I don't think you ever will see it either John. It would be like me being Columbus trying to convince the court that the world isn't flat.

One example: Trump jokes "maybe the they can find her missing emails" and the press runs with TRUMP ASKS RUSSIANS TO INVESTIGATE HILLARY...

Golf? I think he's on track with the last President, who no one on this site ever complained about his golfing.
See what I mean? You set the table for that comparison, which aligns with my ongoing "Trump does it = bad, others do it = meh, what's the big deal"

Did Trump not invite, publicly, the Russians to provide material on Hillary and her email? Has he not made an enormous number of claims that are/have been proven demonstrably false? I am not encyclopedic about his actions but I think I recall him doing so. Am I mistaken?

“There are fine people on both sides”??? No, I'm sorry, Neo-Nazis are not fine people. And juxtaposed to those sorts of documented missives are all sorts of gratuitously disparaging comments about opponents or people who testified against him. I'm sorry, I don't see parity. His is a destructive personality and his actions largely reflect that. As to my gripes, what I often see is a media that's pandering and doesn't ask the hard questions and insist on straight-ahead answers.

The golf thing was addressed elsewhere.

I have been a lifelong Democrat and very active in politics, but I am getting tired of the argument that the voter is stupid.

To me that guy is saying he doesn't like Sanders. Good politics, doesn't like the guy. Put a microphone in his face, and he uses the word "Socialist" to say "doesn't like" because he doesn't want to sound stupid. But he knows what he's thinking and he knows how he feels about Sanders. Like I said, good politics, doesn't like the guy.

Trump voters get chastised for not caring about the character of their candidate. Well, here's a guy who might actually care about things like character. Or personality. And he doesn't want to vote for someone who rubs him the wrong way.

Maybe Sanders' ideas are the future of the Democratic Party, but Sanders' time as the one to advance them has come and gone. I think Biden's time has come and gone, but I guess I'm wrong and he's got one last shot at it.

I didn't call the guy stupid and you don't know what he was thinking. We only know what he said, and what he said was the he wanted a thing or two that, as it happens, only Sanders has been standing for, for a long time. And, sorry, but statements like “too much a socialist” suggests to me that he isn't terribly well informed. It's certainly his right to hold that position but it's a pretty big disconnect. In as much as a lot of folks understand that the off-shoring of the past four or so decades has harmed our industry and people, they're correct; but can you imagine the public reaction (their reaction) to Carter (or any other administration) having tried to attenuate the migration with, gasp, regulations that would have made it too painful to do?

I won't debate these points further.

[zachateseverything]

Obama didn't campaign for president claiming he would be too busy to ever play golf. Trump did. One area where Trump definitely has Obama beat is rounds played. Also monies generated by fleecing the public for staying and playing at self-owned properties. The facts are there for you, if you're inclined to seek them out. See, eg, Trump Golf Count. So, too, Trump and Russia, but that may be too dense: https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf.

"Fun stats" from the golf count website:

Days Trump has spent at Mar a Lago:
127
Cost of flights to Mar a Lago (30 so far):*
~$59,110,000
Days Trump has spent at Bedminster:
75
Cost of flights to Bedminster (23 so far):*
~$18,375,500
Trump has visited his clubs once every this many days since his inauguration:
4.6
Projected visits to golf clubs in four years:
315
Projected visits in eight years:
629
Total times Obama played golf during his eight year Presidency:
306

This is the part that really bothers me. I understand that US Presidents are going to take vacation days and that because of the security requirements associated with that position there is going to be a hefty taxpayer funded bill associated with them. Trump might be taking vacation days and trips at a higher rate than previous office holders but that's not my main gripe. I didn't much care for "conservatives" getting up in arms about Obama trips to Martha's Vineyard so I'm not going to point the finger about it now.

but this petty self dealing is incredibly corrupt. by traveling to his own properties he is forcing the secret service and other federal employees to book hotel rooms and pay for meals (not to mention stuff like golf carts) at his resorts and that money ultimately goes into his own bank account. This would be a direct policy violation at any publicly traded company and would get a person fired immediately at any job level.

[theflashunc]

This is the part that really bothers me. I understand that US Presidents are going to take vacation days and that because of the security requirements associated with that position there is going to be a hefty taxpayer funded bill associated with them. Trump might be taking vacation days and trips at a higher rate than previous office holders but that's not my main gripe. I didn't much care for "conservatives" getting up in arms about Obama trips to Martha's Vineyard so I'm not going to point the finger about it now.

but this petty self dealing is incredibly corrupt. by traveling to his own properties he is forcing the secret service and other federal employees to book hotel rooms and pay for meals (not to mention stuff like golf carts) at his resorts and that money ultimately goes into his own bank account. This would be a direct policy violation at any publicly traded company and would get a person fired immediately at any job level.

Grifters gonna grift.

[zachateseverything]

Grifters gonna grift.

such is the GOP way

[j44ke]

...I won't debate these points further.

That's a lock! Elvis has left the building.

[JJohnson]

I asked this earlier in the thread and didn't get a response from anyone. What Sanders policy proposals would be a hard veto from a President Biden if the bill made it's way through the House and Senate?

Medicare for All would be veto'd so hard, as one example. The guy is literally running on a "no changes" platform.

[JJohnson]

Yes, it's totally a vast conspiracy and not just the narrowing of the field as candidates dropped out after realizing they didn't have a path to the nomination and broad support forming around someone only slightly left of center.

Who is slightly left of center? Biden is either squarely in the center or slightly right.