Learn Me On Down Jackets

[steve garro]

Patagonia.
If it blows out, you can no problem warrenty it.
Bonus points for a college student.
My wife lives in hers.
You need a bomber shell as well - down gets wet.
From lovely Flagstaff, AZ -6*F now with a high of 22 & 40mph winds (lovely)
- Garro.

[Lionel]

Congrats!

On fill power note that there are EU fill power and US fill power. You need to add about 15% to the EU fill power to get to the equivalent US ones. Patagonia does good stuff but their fit is very wide. So for a cyclist not sure it will work, i know it does not for me. I find down great for layering in the winter. Have a look at Montbell, Norrona or Rab.

[j44ke]

I had forgotten that part (satisfaction guaranteed) - I have a Patagonia bag that I have sent back twice and they've restitched it and put a new zipper in for no $$. Bag is almost 12 years old.

Here's a great down item - called a sweater, but it probably works to freezing temps. Fill power is 800, so you can probably stuff it into a ball the size of a cantaloupe or smaller.

Patagonia Men's Hi-Loft Down Sweater

Add this to it and you have quite a 1-2 for colder temps and rain.

Patagonia Men's Torrentshell Stretch Jacket

And their silk weight capilene long underwear is the stuff.

Baselayers & Underwear by Patagonia

These are all things that will last a long time. My oldest piece of Patagonia stuff was just stolen by my sister a few years ago, and it is over 15 years old.

[GSmith]

Congrats on your acceptance, your future is bright.

I went to grad school at Dartmouth and have many great memories of playing in and around Hanover, especially in the winter. Great cycling of all types right out your dorm door. Look up photographer Chris Milliman (a local) and get some of his "epic" gravel road routes. Celebrate the harsh winters for what they are by getting out and alpine or nordic skiing, snowshoeing, winter mountaineering, ice climbing, or skating and pond hockey right on campus at Occum Pond. We used to x-country ski to pub night and the return trip home to Sachem Village was always an adventure.

As for down jackets, they are hard to beat for warmth to weight ratio, but have some limitations. They don't work well in active situations, which is why most winter alpine athletes refer to them as belay or camp jackets. The reason they don't work for active uses is that they don't breath, not because of the down, but rather the interior and face fabrics have to be very tight wovens to keep the feathers from poking through. Same thing for synthetic insulation packages like Primaloft and Thinsulate, which unlike down, will still insulate when wet, but in their case, the encapsulating fabrics still need to be very tight to minimize the insulating fibers being pulled through during stitching operations and/or subsequently migrating out of the needle holes. All of them, down and the previously mentioned synthetics, have to be baffled to keep the insulation from settling. This creates cold spots, and for some, the Michelin Man aesthetic.

This new "puffy" insulation product from Polartec, developed in conjunction with US Special Operations Forces is a game changer. Think about it, if you are fighting bad guys in a cold climate, you wear body armor and a load carrying harness, and you frequently have to remain static for long periods of time and then quickly get up and move on a moments notice. You don't have the ability to stop and remove your body armor or load harness to de-layer/re-layer when the bad guys are shooting at you.

What's exciting about this product as it now goes into commercial applications is the ability to make single, light weight garments that provide active insulation that breathes, minimizing the need for multiple layers.

Full disclosure, I am the CEO of Polartec, so I am proud of this new break through. In addition to the US Military, we make technical performance fabrics for just about all of the world's best outdoor brands, including the entire Patagonia Capilene and Regulator series, North Face's iconic Denali jacket, and many more. I've also been fortunate in my career to lead outdoor apparel and footwear businesses like Timberland and Smartwool, so you have many good options to choose from to keep you warm and dry. Nothing beats good wool for next-to-skin base-layers, and nothing beats polyester fleece for mid layer insulation. A good down jacket is a great piece for around town warmth, or stuffed in your backpack for static situations on the trail like belaying or camp time.

Most important, you have four years in front of you where you will be challenged and work hard academically, but you will do it in a bucolic New England setting, where if you choose to optimize the experiences right outside your door, it will serve up some of the best times of your life.

Bright future indeed. Best of luck.

[robin3mj]

Mr. Smith- I think we're gonna need to see a Baileyworks/Polartec/Vsalon collabo jacket once these are available.
Indy Fab pit crew approved or somesuch.

The North Conway mention above reminded me of what my friends in NH call EMS- Expensive Mountain Shit.

[Lionel]

Full disclosure, I am the CEO of Polartec, so I am proud of this new break through. In addition to the US Military, we make technical performance fabrics for just about all of the world's best outdoor brands, including the entire Patagonia Capilene and Regulator series, North Face's iconic Denali jacket, and many more. I've also been fortunate in my career to lead outdoor apparel and footwear businesses like Timberland and Smartwool, so you have many good options to choose from to keep you warm and dry. Nothing beats good wool for next-to-skin base-layers, and nothing beats polyester fleece for mid layer insulation. A good down jacket is a great piece for around town warmth, or stuffed in your backpack for static situations on the trail like belaying or camp time.
.

Gary, I recently got a Polartec thermal pro Norrona fleece and I am quite impressed with it. Not quite the warm/weight of down but better breathability than previous fleeces I had and not as bulky. Looking forward to the new military stuff! As for down breathability there are some outer fabric that are not water repellent that breathe better but must be worn as a layer only.

[xjoex]

Not to hijack drietz's thread, but why don't people make shoe covers out of pile fleece covered in softshell or a hard shell? I sewed some in to a pair rain covers I have and they are really warm.

-Joe

[charliedid]

Not to hijack drietz's thread, but why don't people make shoe covers out of pile fleece covered in softshell or a hard shell? I sewed some in to a pair rain covers I have and they are really warm.

-Joe

Some do but they are really bulky...like so bulky they hit crank arms.

[davids]

Congrats on the acceptance, Dartmouth is a fantastic institution. You're getting great advice here so I won't add any.

Please check in with us this time next year - I want to hear what you've learned about living in a cold climate. I've been observing my daughter's roommate (they're down the road in Northhampton) as she adjusts to her first winter outside of Santa Barbara - I think she's learning that, just because it's a bright sunny day doesn't mean that shorts are the correct attire. I think...

[brucew]

Actual down jackets are too warm for me to wear while doing anything under a very leisurely activity. Even at zero, they're too warm to ride in or ski in. Maybe a very lightweight one, but then you're not really getting the benefits of a down jacket, the super warmth.

Get a soft shell fleece for activities and a down jacket for walking to class and standing around, at least IMHO.

Plum

This is spot on.

If you're active, you don't need down.

Once I started cycling through the winter, ALL of my "warm" coats have stayed in the closet. When it's really cold (and I'm walking, not cycling) I'll wear a Gore-Tex rain jacket over a fleece.

You'll need the down if you're going to be outside, standing around doing nothing. I can imagine there may be some social activities where you'd need it. But any sort of physical activity and they're far too warm.

[72gmc]

Congratulations. And buy good stuff when you buy. Gulping once over the price beats fuming twice when you have to replace something cheap. Patagonia's slim fit jackets are good stuff and repel beer as well or better than anything else.

[Joel Benjamin L]

A word of advice: Dartmouth has wonderful intellectual and professional resources, but it also has a very vibrant Greek culture of excess. It is probably not possible to take advantage of both at once.

[xjoex]

Congratulations. And buy good stuff when you buy. Gulping once over the price beats fuming twice when you have to replace something cheap. Patagonia's slim fit jackets are good stuff and repel beer as well or better than anything else.

Truer words never spoken, spend your money once not twice.

-Joe

[GSmith]

I have a good friend who always says, "cry once" when speaking of purchasing good gear and tools.

[mimbresman]

Patagonia has a great business model. Quality is A#1, and as a company they have great ethics.
I have a late-1980s fleece pile pull-over jacket that I used for mountain biking for many many years, but my wife loaned it my sister-in-law in Venezuela (for an Andes trip) and I didn't get it back before we left. I guess it'll live there for another 20-40 years.

[drietz]

OK, so, I now understand that down is sometimes too warm, which is good as I was going to use the jacket mostly just as a belay jacket and a "walking to class" outer layer.

I think a down, a fleece, and a shell will probably be good bets for me as layers.

Anybody have specific recommendations on down sweaters, though? Maybe hooded? Patagonia, North Face, Marmot, etc? What's your favorite?

[mimbresman]

I'm living in northern New Mexico at 7000 ft...again...and I recommend a fleece pull-over, a down vest, and an outer shell from any of the manufacturers you listed. All are quality. I also recommend a SmartWool beanie; thin, fits under a bike helmet, but toasty warm! Keep your head warm, your whole body stays fairly warm. Also recommend OR windstopper gloves...they're killer!

[Jason Musgrave]

GSmith is absolutely spot-on (as you would expect). Down sucks as active-wear. Really interested to see that new Alpha material.

Gary - My best-mate got to carry the Olympic torch because of his fund-raising for you guys after the Malden-Mills factory burned down. Think he was ~14 back then.



p.s. My 9-yr old Arc'teryx softshell is the best piece of outdoor gear I've owned. Better materials for various conditions...but none have ever been as versatile, that thing does just about everything well.

[GonaSovereign]

Lots of good advice in this thread. If you're going the down route, you might want to give some thought to where down comes from. Depending on whether or not you give a shi_t about animals, there are some decidedly unethical down suppliers out there who are totally fine with treating the animals very poorly. The excellent company Patagonia is struggling with this right now as their supplier is unwilling to guarantee the down is ethically sourced. Canada Goose sources from very good suppliers (which explains part of the price). Again, this might or might not be an issue for you.

And as others have noted, synthetic is often better for active stuff.

[bryand]

Congratulations!

I'd like to throw out another option for you, Burton's AK LZ-Down Jacket. It's a hooded Gore-Tex, water and wind proof breathable shell with down insulation. It doesn't look like a puffy jacket; it's more like a clean hooded shell with pockets and pit zips that's plenty warm for anything you'll do. It also has a lifetime warranty and is a great match for the lousy weather we live in here in New England!

Best of luck!