Someone Else's Musings On My Trade atmo -

[XJBaylor]

I agree with the sentiment that the best (i.e. most likely to be ridden into the ground) bikes seemed to be largely passed over by the press. Some of that blame falls on the shoulders of the consumer. Many claim to want one bike to end all bikes, but in the end they buy the newest carbon-uber bike every other season. They claim to want coverage of "real bikes" but buy the magazine with the stealth Dogma EPS on the cover. They claim to want more "good news" on TV, but as soon as the happy story comes on they flip the channel. NAHBS is largely a show about what can be done, not what should be done, because that is how the builders draw the average attendee (and media member) into their booth.

Stinner had two beautiful road bikes in his booth, but they only thing that got much coverage was the (amazing) OD green GDMBR bike. Not that it won't be used, but most of the people pining for it wouldn't use if for anything more than a conversation starter at a coffee shop. Kelson displayed bike designs that are currently being raced successfully, but little mention was made. Hampsten displayed two of the most beautiful "everyday" bikes I have ever seen, but all of the pictures were of the (fantastic) 7-11 track bike or his historic "Huffy." Ellis had a beautiful mint green bike that served as little more than a background for the (droolworthy) Strada Fango. Lundbeck, Strong, A-Train, DeSalvo and many others had amazing bikes that I would gladly ride until they rusted out from beneath me but I had trouble finding information on them after leaving the show.

The vSalon guys are actually buying these bikes, but the general public largely ignores them. As the article mentioned, hopefully the wildly escalating prices of the market in general will open the average consumers eyes to the value proposition being offered by the craftsman found at NAHBS. For once the artisan American option is both cheaper and arguably better, yet we (as a whole) ignore it and continue to buy what the glossy magazine ads tell us to buy.

[Mabouya]

I agree with Partland. I'm no expert in the biz, just a good customer, and I've only attended one show (Indy), but came away from that thinking that way too many of the bikes were just for show, nothing I'd be interested in riding. I've said it before, but who knew that for so many builders out there building a super-fancy cargo bike is the absolute pinnacle of their craft?

[Rody]

As a fan and builder who shares many of the same frustrations as the author, I appreciate the article's critical eye at the undertones of an industry that drives many builders to create pieces that stand out during show time in an effort to garner the attention of the patron walking by.

I personally love the old race addage...race what ya brung.

I believe Nahbs exhibitors should aggressively grab hold of the opportunity to display wares that are representative of what comes out of their shop on a daily basis. The effort you see on my booth floor is the same that you can expect from me when your bike is the one I focus on.

I can wear a pink tutu to catch attention, but in the end it's not who I am every day and my ass is just still as big.

Just sayin...

rody

[funcrusher]

I'm guessing that 90% of the clothes you see in a runway show never see the streets. That doesn't mean runway shows don't serve a purpose. And they do them twice a year.

i think it is higher...couture ain't meant for the masses...also it is hard to be 6'2" with a 28" waist or in the case of women, being 5'11" and weighting 110lbs with the build of a 13yr old boy...

[e-RICHIE]

Thread drift atmo -

If you didn't catch the feed from the Saturday night Smoked Out Live panel discussion, catch it.
Rody here gets it.
I'm glad he stumbled upon this thread and added his POV.

As you were.

As a fan and builder who shares many of the same frustrations as the author, I appreciate the article's critical eye at the undertones of an industry that drives many builders to create pieces that stand out during show time in an effort to garner the attention of the patron walking by.

I personally love the old race addage...race what ya brung.

I believe Nahbs exhibitors should aggressively grab hold of the opportunity to display wares that are representative of what comes out of their shop on a daily basis. The effort you see on my booth floor is the same that you can expect from me when your bike is the one I focus on.

I can wear a pink tutu to catch attention, but in the end it's not who I am every day and my ass is just still as big.

Just sayin...

rody

[chasea]

... or in the case of women, being 5'11" and weighting 110lbs with the build of a 13yr old boy...

Exactly. You ever try riding one of those things?

[bellman]

J.P. is anything but random atmo. He has been a career journalist for the trade and the sport for a very long time.

To be clear, Its the inevitable type of post post show that someone always writes somewhere that I was talking about. I was'nt specifically targeting the author here.

[jerk]

all i can probably do is get in trouble for posting my thoughts on the matter- but that hasn't stopped me before. i spend a lot of my time "defending" my company, my bikes and particularly my business model. I have been an ally and proponent of all things NAHBS for the last nine years, an exhibitor for the last three and an attendee for four years before that. nonetheless, i think about this stuff all the time. i have stated that i will continue to attend nahbs as long as they'll have me and i look forward to seeing my firends, my clients and my suppliers every year....still i don't think i could count the number of times i described my bike as being "just a sporting good for a sport i like." or a "tool".....or that i don't really care beyond picking out the pretty colors (which i left to Pantone and Roberto Cavalli this year :) ) what the bike ends up looking like- because i know that bikes that ride right- ALWAYS look right....anyway i do worry about the "art" thing...they "fey" thing and the "precious" thing....i worry that my customers and potential customers will have the take of this client and friend who i will not name,

with only a tiny view from the outside, i'd say the only thing you should consider taking personally is the bamboo / wood thing, i certainly enjoy it when you bring it up. the reality is that the fetish / alternative material / weird scene that is nahbs is actually for me, a potential customer, kind of a big turnoff. i like the idea of a north american made bike show b/c of USA USA USA type stuff, but i am still uncertain what the big deal is with the "by hand" part. i feel like it's a really interesting hook for the few guys whose hands you'd actually TRUST (richard, dario, ?) but other than that seems like an invitation to get ripped off, mis fit, or put on something really twee and girly. but whatever.

i am worried about what we do not being part of the bicycle industry as a whole. i want to sell my bikes to guys who get hot and bothered by madones and dogmas and tarmacs....i think that the historical signifigance and the only viable market for a handbuilt fucking expensive machine like a bicycle is for sport and the long hard use that a sporting bicycle is best suited for- no one else needs, or can even appreciate the work and expertise and design unless they really push it and use it for long hours and miles....and to me other than a high-end mountain bike- what other bicycle can possibly be ridden in a demanding manner for five hours on end? are we gilding or pushing the envelope? i guess i worry about our craft when the there are guys putting shingles out and trying to make a livelyhood based on something that isn't even best in class or at least viable for their true intentions- transportation or sporting good.

[e-RICHIE]

To be clear, Its the inevitable type of post post show that someone always writes somewhere that I was talking about. I was'nt specifically targeting the author here.

Gotcha'.
I misread you.

[RickM]

And the Backlash continues...

Putting the anal somewhere in ‘artisanal’. | ALL HAIL THE BLACK MARKET

[liberacefanboy]

After flipping through out the posts here and the article, YEAH, I agree.
However, I have been to all the shows but two, the first in Austin and the Portland show.
I love NAHBS.
I do bitch about certain parts of it, that's just me.
I do hear things about what I do, that I only make "kitsch" bikes, that I only do these bikes for "show".
I heard this a couple times while at the show.
What I love about NAHBS is that if you take the time, look around and talk to the builders, you will GET IT if you are asking the right questions.
And by get it I mean that the builder should have brought what he/she does day in day out.
That is what I have done every show.
I like flake, metallics' and things that some say have no place here. ( the custom world).
It seems that if you diverge to much from the "norm" you get barreled into a strange world.
I had to tell a reporter type guy this year that no, these are not concept bikes, they are just bikes. They ride well, straight, and pedal like a lot of other bikes. They are for people that wanted something different, is that not why they go to any other builder? I continued to tell him that every year people ask why I build these strange bikes, every year. I told him I build what people want me to build them, that is who I serve, and I will never stop.I build what I want, what is safe, and what is best for who orders it. Done it for almost 20 years.
It seems to be a hot topic if you decide to talk about what someone built, why they built it, and why they would never build it.
While I might yap at the mouth sometimes, is this not why we were all there, to show what we can do? What we do day in day out?
I love going there year in, year out, to hear all the wisdom before me. Thanks to all the builders who talked to me, I feel like I get smarter every year just by talking to you all.
Now, if I didn't have 9 stitches in my butt, i would go out for a ride. What a long strange trip this one was !!
erik

[jerk]

^^This guy brought what he does day in and day out.....and a fucking coaster brake fat bike is the only thing i want.

[hampco]

my experience is that there are two shows happening at once. one for the (take your pick) one-off/artisanal/whackball/fussed over - and i'm not trying to be disparaging here - and one for the standard production bikes that represent the bread-and-butter for many of us. there is plenty of overlap and many gray areas but if someone goes to nahbs and doesn't see moots/alchemy/IF/desalvo/strong - and yes, hampsten and gaulzetti, among many others - as indicative of a healthy hand-made mini-industry IN ADDITION TO the bling that is so commonly derided then i feel they've missed what the show is about.

vive le difference, iow. haters gotta hate but the show is overwhelmingly positive for what i do in my business.

[niedz]

That is a very pertinent article. But not every small builder is there bringing "show" bikes. Drew of Engin for instance does not build show bikes, he brings the latest bikes built for customers, much like Rody and a few others. Engin's don't have much flash, they are built to be ridden and to have excellent ride quality. Look around for his titanium Di2 disc cross bike. Definitely the cleanest electronic shifting bike there. No wires anywhere, nothing ziptied on, and built for a customer.

[EricKeller]

my reading comprehension isn't the best today, but was he calling for framebuilders to be "Joe the discount framebuilder?" Anyway, I think I had similar thoughts yesterday looking through one of the crazy complete flickr sets on the NAHBS bikes. Not that people should build discount bikes, but that the prices for some of those bikes must be through the roof, and I wanted to see more bikes that were made to ride. The chrome and paint on some of those bikes probably cost more than my personal ride. But people flock to the unapologetic show bikes, so what are builders going to do? I remember in Richmond there were always ridiculous crowds around the Cherubum bike with the torture device saddle, I just don't get the appeal of bikes like that. Except maybe -- ooh, shiny.

That being said, there are plenty of nice bikes there. I will probably go next year, it's still worth it. I do wonder if skirting civilization to avoid unions is really the way to go. The philly show that Bilenky puts on is really nice, btw, a lot fewer show bikes.

[niedz]

well it does appear that many of us are on the same page.

[Corso]

My wife was in the garment industry for several years. I'd watch runway "fashion" with her and say , "yeah, like you'd really see THAT dress in real life"...

Her reply: You will. In 3 years, but YOU won't be able to recognize it, I will."

And my wife is never wrong.


Roddy summed "it" up better in a few words than J.P.s article.

I was very tempted to "borrow for a long, long time" a certain red with white RGM cross bike in Providence, they are that beautiful. And functional. And are not out of place at a Show. The triple-crown, no?

Some choose to build "show" bikes, others don't. I have no problem with either choice, and wouldn't criticize a builder for doing either.

[zetroc]

I don't want to be a total asshole and rag on anyone in particular, but some stuff that ends up there does smack more of "look at me" than of "ride me". To me as a customer the more exciting bikes - the ones I enjoyed looking at the most - were the bikes I could see myself buying. The bikes that really caught my eye this year were the well-made examples brought by guys like Hampsten, Shamrock, Winter, Ellis, Groovy, Steve Potts, Gaulzetti, Calfee, Sachs, IF, Gangl, Edoz, and Argonaut. The bikes I hardly paid attention to were most of the ones made of wood or designs that were probably not going to be ridden much at all. But, to each his own - I'm not going to tell other people what they should or shouldn't be looking at and/or getting excited about. I will keep looking at, buying, and riding bikes that are made to be ridden by people who really like making them that way.

Of course there seems to be pressure to up the precious quotient; what gets more photos taken gets more publicity, after all. But I wonder how many of those types of bikes are purchased on a regular basis as opposed to actual to-be-ridden bicycles.

$.02

[jerk]

not to change the subject....but there was a japanese company selling a titanium hubset for $7450.00 at the show.

carry on.

[e-RICHIE]

<cut> I do wonder if skirting civilization to avoid unions is really the way to go.

The money saved on avoiding unions is more than spent (in spades...) elsewhere trying to
negotiate a way to get yourself and your booth collection to these non-union towns atmo.