It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[Blue Jays]

bcm119 and Mabouya...your posts were both clear and I understood them.
Our founders wished to ensure a reliable method that would require consensus.
The truly brilliant Electoral College ensures that all states must be acknowledged.

[Mabouya]

We're discussing the blue and red "county map," not the EC.

[Blue Jays]

They go hand-in-hand together.

[rowdyhillrambler]

He’s just gross-like totally grody.. everything included.. a man with no respect for music or simply can’t laugh without bein a bully-it’s disgusting

[bcm119]

They go hand-in-hand together.

Incorrect. The EC is based on population, with a curve applied to the ratio of people to electoral votes to give less populous states slightly more representation per capita. The red and blue county map doesn't represent this system at all. Instead, it shows the winning party by arbitrary areal units with no regard to population, which isn't how the EC works.

[mzilliox]

so in our capitalist society, capitalists take capital to the coasts and capital rich areas, which is jobs, yes? people follow these jobs to the capital rich areas, and now their personal vote is worth less right? just because they are moving toward capital. so a move toward capital gives less voting power to capital rich areas and more voting power to areas that are actively dying from a loss of population, tax revenue, and need for representation perspective.
you think this is how the founders thought about it? im not so sure.
i think the founders were thinking about states who ran more like countries, who had independent economies and who could not afford to be governed the same way as their neighbors. a farmer in the south had much different needs than a shipper in the northeast. that is no longer remotely true. our needs and desires are much more closely aligned now. the farmer in iowa actually does have the same basic wants and needs of a wall street broker, and hes playing the same game now, its not like hes hands deep in the soil having 17 kids to help on the farm.

whats interesting is we have no real idea what the founders thought in terms of how this would apply to today. anyone who pretends to know the intentions of the founding fathers is just that, pretending. they were drunk, 18yr old, wig wearing farmers governing a small nation of simple folk with no information at their hands.

i am not totally against the electoral college, but i do not think it currently is serving us as it should and it could be improved. of course i think nearly everything that is can be improved.

[Mabouya]

Incorrect. The EC is based on population, with a curve applied to the ratio of people to electoral votes to give less populous states slightly more representation per capita. The red and blue county map doesn't represent this system at all. Instead, it shows the winning party by arbitrary areal units with no regard to population, which isn't how the EC works.

But, but, but, what about Benghazi? You're totally leaving that part out.

[Blue Jays]

Electoral College can certainly be changed if the will of the people truly wished it be changed.
Same with many of the Amendments countless citizens of our great country hold near and dear.

[Mabouya]

Electoral College can certainly be changed if the will of the people truly wished it be changed.
Same with many of the Amendments countless citizens of our great country hold near and dear.

Are you proposing to modify the EC from a state-based system to a county-based system?

I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with the red-blue county map, which is what I thought we were discussing, but you keep veering from the map to the EC.

[theflashunc]

Our country does not mandate that Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York get to decide the leadership for everyone.

The founders of our country recognized a pure Democracy was unsustainable and representation needed balance.

Mostly because the rural landowners didn't want slavery thrown out the door day 1 by an urban abolitionist contingent.

As with a lot of things in our nation's history, it comes back to slavery.

[Blue Jays]

I am satisfied with the Constitution as it currently stands.
It is a brilliant foundation for a freedom-loving nation.

[monadnocky]

I am satisfied with the Constitution as it currently stands.
It is a brilliant foundation for a freedom-loving nation.

How about that part that institutionalized slavery? The part that says that five slaves shall represent three people? The part that, in direct opposition to its aspirational premise, accords (white) landowners with greater voting power?
The Constitution may have been an okay start, but for God's sake let's not hope that it's an untouchable document (as per amendments....)

[Corso]

But, but, but, what about Benghazi? You're totally leaving that part out.

People died. I don't think it should be used as a punchline.

[GrantM]

People died. I don't think it should be used as a punchline.

Tell that to the Commander In Chief.

[Blue Jays]

"...Tell that to the Commander In Chief..."

Touché.

[Matthew Strongin]

Partly, but I think many people choose to ignore the negativity coming from sources they agree with. And there are negative sources of disinformation on the left as well, though they are less obvious. A clear source is Huffpost, which is as comical at times as Fox or Rush Limbaugh.

I don't know about that. Most of the left leaning people I know think Huffpost and other sites/news sources like it aren't actual trusted news sources. Fox News spins a narrative that a huge swath of people treat is gospel and I just don't see that happening with Huffpost (for example).

[vertical_doug]

The Ways to Destroy Democracy | The Nation

If you want a book to read over the holidays.

Interesting how evangelicals supported Hitler.
I hope the editorial in Christianity Today is the beginning of the end of Evangelical support for Trump. (although I'm not holding my breath)

[vertical_doug]

Partly, but I think many people choose to ignore the negativity coming from sources they agree with. And there are negative sources of disinformation on the left as well, though they are less obvious. A clear source is Huffpost, which is as comical at times as Fox or Rush Limbaugh.

I don't know if you listen to Rush Limbaugh or Chris Plant, but I do once every two weeks or so to take the temperature of the room. They really are mirroring Trump and his school yard bullying name calling now. It feeds the reptilian part of our brain.

[Matthew Strongin]

I don't know if you listen to Rush Limbaugh or Chris Plant, but I do once every two weeks or so to take the temperature of the room. They really are mirroring Trump and his school yard bullying name calling now. It feeds the reptilian part of our brain.

On my drive to work I listen to central or left leaning news. On my way home I listen to Fox or far right news/commentators. I do it almost every day so I can see the juxtaposition of what stories make the headlines. It's remarkable.

[choke]

anyone who pretends to know the intentions of the founding fathers is just that, pretending. they were drunk, 18yr old, wig wearing farmers governing a small nation of simple folk with no information at their hands.

What???

While there were some who were younger, I don't know of any who were 18 years old. As for the drunk part....I won't even dignify that....

Age of some key Founding Fathers at the time of the Declaration of Independence.

Alexander Hamilton, 21
James Madison, 25
John Jay, 30
Thomas Jefferson, 33
John Adams, 40
George Washington, 44

But since the Constitution was ratified in 1788 you can add 22 years to those numbers.