If you want to dump Trump....

[bigbill]

Bill - That is not what we are discussing. You were the one that chose the phrasing 'will of the people', maybe you should be more precise. Or do some people count more?

I don't want to confuse the issue - But are you going to be making the same arguments when demographics shift Arizona and Texas blue?

Some people do count more, that is how the electoral college works. The underrepresented are given more equal footing in the Presidential election so the larger states don't have too much influence. If you eliminate the electoral college, then campaigns will change to focus on popular vote.

Edit, wanted to answer the second part. If AZ and TX turn blue, so be it.

[Toddykins]

Sure, but again - You were the one that said you wanted congress to do the will of the people, not me.

Things we are not discussing: 1) The historical and current electoral framework 2) Whether this is good or bad.

[Toddykins]

Some people do count more, that is how the electoral college works....

A vote in Wyoming counts more than a vote in California, its probably not in good taste to be debating whether a person in Wyoming counts more than one in California...

[bigbill]

A vote in Wyoming counts more than a vote in California, its probably not in good taste to be debating whether a person in Wyoming counts more than one in California...

But that's how it works. People per electoral vote is higher in California and New York, and lower in the "flyover" states. That's our system.

[bigbill]

Sure, but again - You were the one that said you wanted congress to do the will of the people, not me.

Things we are not discussing: 1) The historical and current electoral framework 2) Whether this is good or bad.

It's the will of their constituents. The Democrats control the House and the Republicans control the Senate. That's why the House impeached Trump and the Senate found him not guilty.

[Corso]

You would hope the Pentagon has his back, especially after being called "fools and babies."

Oh I'm sure Pelosi, Schiff and Nadler will have his back.







Not.

[GrantM]

Not it is not that simple. The United States is a Constitutional Democracy, not a direct democracy. Representatives are elected by the people and the Senate has more Republicans than Democrats because of how people voted.

Yes, i'm aware of the structure of the government, i have a BA in American History, and another in Political Science.
I think you missed Trumps lawyers playing the "democratic" card, and their "the people elected Trump", argument the senate shouldn't "overturn the election"...
despite the way the constitution is written. I'm saying let's not conflate the system of government with the people.

-g

[GrantM]

If Bernie's campaign had paid tens of thousands of $ to a company employing ex-staffers of say, Tulsi Gabbard, for an unsecured app to count the votes in an election he was in, this would (properly) be front page NYT 24 hours a day. You know that, surely.

Blackhawk County reported its totals, and the central tabulators gave hundreds of votes from Bernie's totals to Deval Patrick.
Webster Country reported large wins for Buttigieg, but in at least one caucus site in Webster, no volunteer was available, and a note was left on the door with an envelope of official paperwork for reporting totals for whoever might show up. Heavy Bernie districts got reported last, despite being some of the first to report. I watched video of Buttigieg being awarded 3 delegate equivalents via a coin toss where the guy doing it simply cheated. Buttigieg declared victory before any totals, and refused to even talk to reporters about it. CNN wouldn't even report vote totals, but only SDE totals, which have NOTHING to do with the national delegates, just to give Buttigieg a 3 day media boost as "the winner", which helped bump him up 9 points in New Hampshire.

After a $300k 'donation', the DNC changed its rules for debate participation to allow Republican Michael Bloomberg in. They wouldn't let Gravel participate even when he did qualify, and wouldn't bend for any of the candidates of color. But money opened the door because they want to get Bernie out. Obama said flat-out that if it looked like Bernie were going to win, he'd step in and "do something". So don't tell me about pizza gate.

In NO case was any 'error' in Bernie's favor. This is bullshit top to bottom. As far as "conspiracy", you make it sound like the only kind of conspiracy is a James Bond like operation. This was a conspiracy, just not well done. I'm just glad Bernie's people kept records of the local totals.

that's nuts.

-g

[ericpmoss]

that's nuts.

-g

You didn't look into any of it. Don't lecture me.

The DNC accepted a $300k donation two days before he entered the race:
Mike Bloomberg Gave the DNC $3K Two Days Before He Entered the 22 Race - VICE

The DNC is being purged of Bernie supporters by Tom Perez (who was picked by Obama to prevent progressive Keith Ellison from being the chair). Perez personally installed two people in the Rules committee who are part of Bloomberg's campaign, and personally changed the rules to allow Bloomberg to run despite not reaching the minimal number of individual donors:
'In Law School They Called This Conflict of Interest': Tlaib Objects to Paid Bloomberg Staffers on DNC Committees | Common Dreams News

A small group in the DNC is trying to revive first round super-delegate voting in order to knock out Bernie if he is the front runner by convention time. It's a small group, but it shows the hatred for progressives:
DNC members discuss rules change to stop Sanders at convention - POLITICO

The debacle in Iowa really was a conspiracy, if not well-done:
Billionaire pro-Israel Buttigieg backer Seth Klarman funds group behind Iowa's disastrous voting app | The Grayzone

and the ties between McKinsey consultants, the Clinton staff, the Bloomberg staff (even by marriage), and rightwing billionaires are not fiction.
Companies behind Iowa Caucuses app faux pas had ties to Hillary Clinton, Pete Buttigieg campaigns

Obama himself is not above trying to derail Bernie if it looks like he'd win:
Obama Said He Would Speak Up To Stop Bernie Sanders Nomination: Report | HuffPost

Hillary is telling people (only backpedaling after blowback) that she wouldn't commit to voting Bernie over Trump. The establishment would rather have Trump than Bernie.
https://www.salon.com/2020/01/21/hil...ody-likes-him/

I know you want to believe that the Dems are above such things, but they aren't. They bend over backward to justify billionaire money, and it shows.

[Too Tall]

Suggestion. Hit the pause button and consider this is the breakfast club. We are all a bunch of over opinionated arseholes who love riding and talking about bicycles. We dig each other, I can prove that at anytime. Just go on a ride with any of us and try, just try to be pissed after 20 or so miles of catching wheels. Reminder, we are all a bunch of jerks but we need to hear and be heard. Consistent lack of respect and name calling are hard lines to not cross, we get that right?

Carry on (bunch of jerks).

[Ras72]

Suggestion. Hit the pause button and consider this is the breakfast club. We are all a bunch of over opinionated arseholes who love riding and talking about bicycles. We dig each other, I can prove that at anytime. Just go on a ride with any of us and try, just try to be pissed after 20 or so miles of catching wheels. Reminder, we are all a bunch of jerks but we need to hear and be heard. Consistent lack of respect and name calling are hard lines to not cross, we get that right?

Carry on (bunch of jerks).

Not riding much these days so you can find me in the kitchen. I'll be pulling shots of espresso and making homemade pasta and pizzas this weekend.

[rwsaunders]

I have no candidate in the hunt as I’m voting for pancakes.

[Too Tall]

Pancakes and Espresso it is.

I'm closing this interesting thread.

Love all you broken arseholes. -J