Virus thread, the political one.

[sk_tle]

The idea that you could sue for this is totally stranger to me.

[Saab2000]

The idea that you could sue for this is totally stranger to me.

In the US you can sue for almost anything. But most cases have no merit and never make it very far in the court system. But (some) lawyers will gladly take your money knowing it won't go anywhere.

The language on any bike product indicates that improper usage may result in "Serious injury or death". This exists to protect the manufacturer. It often includes language like "must be installed by qualified personnel". Since there is no accredited certification of qualification, I don't know who constitutes "qualified". Liability is an interesting topic and since consumer protection laws in the US aren't super strong the ability to sue is necessary at times.

[monadnocky]

In the US you can sue for almost anything. But most cases have no merit and never make it very far in the court system. But (some) lawyers will gladly take your money knowing it won't go anywhere...

Yep. As a society, we're litigious for sure, but I think there's more myth than fact regarding how far things get, or how much damage is awarded. Years ago, I was a jury foreman on a case involving a woman who cut off most of her hand using a metal lathe at work, and was suing the manufacturer of the machine. It was complicated, and I won't go into details here, but she got exactly zero dollars. And zero cents.

She was sympathetic, for sure. But, like I said, it was a complicated case. I'm sure most cases are.

[Saab2000]

Yep. As a society, we're litigious for sure, but I think there's more myth than fact regarding how far things get, or how much damage is awarded. Years ago, I was a jury foreman on a case involving a woman who cut off most of her hand using a metal lathe at work, and was suing the manufacturer of the machine. It was complicated, and I won't go into details here, but she got exactly zero dollars. And zero cents.

She was sympathetic, for sure. But, like I said, it was a complicated case. I'm sure most cases are.

The famous case of the scalding McDonalds coffee was complicated too. I've read some articles on it. The plaintiff was portrayed as just suing for money but there was in fact some merit in her case.

I've never been involved, and we're drifting off course, but I would guess that any case that actually makes it to a jury has some merit. It would seem that any case that is on thin ice or completely without merit will never make it to a judge, let alone a costly trial.

Most companies are lawyered up to deal with these things. At a previous employer I had a chat with a manager who said that company was sued on an almost daily basis by someone, usually with a completely contrived complaint. The law firm they employed dealt with these frivolous lawsuits, for a fee of course.

[sk_tle]

The language on any bike product indicates that improper usage may result in "Serious injury or death". This exists to protect the manufacturer. It often includes language like "must be installed by qualified personnel". Since there is no accredited certification of qualification, I don't know who constitutes "qualified". Liability is an interesting topic and since consumer protection laws in the US aren't super strong the ability to sue is necessary at times.

It is funny because in France for example you cannot wrench bicycles professionnally without having to pass the state sanctionned "Certificat de Qualification Professionnelle" delivered after 238 hours of classes + 4 months as a trainee in a bike shop.

[vertical_doug]

I usually don't have any problem finding fault with Trump, but I have no problem with this policy. Personal accountability has to start somewhere. If you go to a public rally, and you get sick, why should you get to sue someone for it? I get that the leaders of said rally have downplayed the risk. But unless they are guaranteeing safety, you gotta be on your own on this one.

I have a different point to make which goes to my old adage 'Watch what I do, not what I say'. So Trump who down plays the virus, wants to insulate his campaign from it until it magically disappears.

Some of you must die, so the economy can live. I am okay with this, but let's just be honest what the trade is.

There is also discussions in congress about blanket insulation for employees who get infected not being able to sue their employers for unsafe work conditions. (specifically this was driven by the slaughter houses)

If any corporate lawyers are on this forum working for a large corporation with an awards program, I bet the McDonald's conversation came up during the legal discussions of awards and liability.

[zachateseverything]

And, as the virus politic thread....what about Pence tweeting (and then deleting) the picture of him with the campaign staff....meeting of that size was illegal, not only no social distancing but shoulder to shoulder, and not a mask in sight.

What is it with these people...is it deny it exists and it won't? arrogance of I am untouchable even by a disease? religious fanaticism if God wants me to die I'll die? some kind of perverse big swinging one manhood proving thing?

I just don't understand because it can't just be because they are stupid.

You have to keep in mind that prior to being elected to anything Pence was a second rate Limbaugh rip-off. He's not a smart person.

[Sbti]

Dyin' on Tulsa time
Dyin' on Tulsa time
Gonna set my watch back to it
'Cause you know I've been through it
Dyin' on Tulsa time

[Todd Amunrud]

Another ridiculous situation (from the Guardian):


Trump campaign policy stops people suing if they contract coronavirus at rally

US president Donald Trump has implementing a policy that states rally attendees cannot sue the campaign or venue if they contract coronavirus at the event, the New York Times
reports:

‘By clicking register below, you are acknowledging that an inherent risk of exposure to Covid-19 exists in any public place where people are present,’ a statement on Mr. Trump’s campaign website informed those wishing to attend his June 19 rally in Tulsa, Okla. ‘By attending the rally, you and any guests voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to Covid-19 and agree not to hold Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.; BOK Center; ASM Global; or any of their affiliates, directors, officers, employees, agents, contractors or volunteers liable for any illness or injury.’

This has to be throwing the medical community of Jacksonville and surround areas into a tizzy. Such shortsightedness. This puts all those NOT wanting anything to do with him at risk who’ll eventually have to take care of these attendees.

[thollandpe]

Regarding liability, for both for the individual attending and the organizer of an event right now.

The CDC's guidelines read:

• Stay at least 6 feet (about 2 arms’ length) from other people
• Do not gather in groups
• Stay out of crowded places and avoid mass gatherings

So if you deliberately ignore these guidelines you should bear the liability. And as far as who bears it first or more, I think an organizer is first in line. Especially if that organization is associated with the organization that made the rules that it's deliberately flouting. It's unbelievable, but not really. Just another day, an almost predictable escalation.

Time to apply 25 to 45.

[Tom]

That disclaimer is some funny stuff right there, that is.

"If you want to come and rise up on your hind legs, beat your forepaws together and bray don't blame us if you get sick or die from the Democratic Hoax."

OK, I know, that wasn't fair and maybe an overstatement. Perhaps I should have stuck to HST: "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

[htwoopup]

You have to keep in mind that prior to being elected to anything Pence was a second rate Limbaugh rip-off. He's not a smart person.

I can assure you that Donald, who can be charming, is not very bright either.

What I mean is that they have to be smart at some stuff as they got to where they are which both of them have longed for a good long time. That takes at least some sense/ perhaps intuitive about how to pull levers.

But their actions which put themselves (forget the others they endanger as they clearly don’t give a hoot about others) in danger are just mind bogglingly dumb. There has to be some reason/ feeling that makes them feel and act they way they do about this virus.

Just trying to figure out what possible view they could be seeing (I know it is crazy but I am just trying to understand why they are so eff’d up).


And then this from some email of the day....

QUOTE OF THE DAY

"It's as if three or four full Boeing 737s or Airbus A320s were crashing every day, killing everyone on board, in the US." — Dr. Stephen Thrasher, on the coronavirus, which the federal government and many states seem to have given up on trying to do anything about

[htwoopup]

Regarding liability, for both for the individual attending and the organizer of an event right now.

So if you deliberately ignore these guidelines you should bear the liability. And as far as who bears it first or more, I think an organizer is first in line. Especially if that organization is associated with the organization that made the rules that it's deliberately flouting. It's unbelievable, but not really. Just another day, an almost predictable escalation.

Time to apply 25 to 45.

Except for this argument (which was better said by someone else so I am copying and pasting)....”The waiver illustrates two different conceptions of American freedom. The campaign would correctly argue that anyone who attends the rally — where masks and social distancing will be optional — knowingly assumes the risk of illness, and shouldn't be able to sue. If you're afraid of getting sick, don't go, and if you do get sick, you knew the risks. That is individual liberty at work: You know the risks and take your chances.

But what this view misses is that the risk isn't just to the rally-goers. It's also to the people they later share a restaurant table or store aisle with. Those people have signed no waiver, but have been unwillingly put at risk by a Trump rally just the same.

A broader conception of liberty doesn't focus on the right of the individual to do whatever they want, but rather on the framework of rules and responsibilities that allows all of us to be as free from harm and restraint as possible. Trump's rally fails that test. Rally-goers will be exercising their own individual freedom, but narrowing everyone else's, by endangering their lives, liberty, and happiness“

[dashDustin]

right on the heels of record number of new cases, we're now allowing 75% capacity in restaurants. #thumbsup .

[ides1056]

It is funny because in France for example you cannot wrench bicycles professionnally without having to pass the state sanctionned "Certificat de Qualification Professionnelle" delivered after 238 hours of classes + 4 months as a trainee in a bike shop.

I wonder whether police in the US are required to have as much training.

[j44ke]

I wonder whether police in the US are required to have as much training.

This is something I’ve been wondering about. I know on paper that police department budgets increased, but I also know that police departments have been forced to shrink their training programs and move more training to on-the-job. This was part of a previous case involving a police shooting in a dark hallway in one of the projects in NYC. Did the two cops together have enough experience to be in that situation together as partners.

[sk_tle]

This is something I’ve been wondering about. I know on paper that police department budgets increased,

When I look at the pictures, I tend to think they spend most of their budget on military hardware/weapons.

[htwoopup]

To Thomas’ point above and the concept of defund the police....a friend sent me this but he didn’t attribute it so neither can I but worth sharing here...

IMG_0343.jpg

[beeatnik]

ACADEMY PHYSICAL TRAINING PROGRAM | Join LAPD

If you are selected for the LAPD, you will be sent to the world famous LAPD Academy for six months of training. Training is rigorous, demanding and exhausting.

The LAPD Police Academy Curriculum:

Academics

Encompasses arrest and booking procedures, preliminary investigation techniques, radio and communications, report writing, traffic investigation, and traffic enforcement.

Driving

Includes the Emergency Vehicle Operations Course, which covers defensive driving, pursuit policy, and safe vehicle handling.

Firearms Training

Includes weapon care and safety, marksmanship, tactical manipulation with the sidearm and shotgun, and chemical agents handling (Police candidates are strongly discouraged from seeking firearms instruction prior to entering the Police Academy. Poor marksmanship habits may be developed that are difficult or impossible to overcome.).

Human Relations

Includes cultural sensitivity training, sexual harassment issues, media relations, stress management, disability awareness, community relations, tactical communications, hate crimes, missing persons, and domestic violence.

Law

Covers search and seizure, evidence, laws of arrest, crimes against persons and property, sex crimes, crimes against children, and other general criminal statutes falling under the California Penal Code, Los Angeles Municipal Code, Welfare and Institutions Code, and Federal Laws.

Physical Training

Builds strength and endurance through physical conditioning while promoting a positive attitude toward a fitness lifestyle. It also encompasses training in physical arrest techniques, controls, and weaponless defense.

Tactics

Covers patrol techniques and procedures, crimes in progress, building searches, vehicle stops, use of deadly force, and shooting policy.

LAPD Specific Training

Includes Advanced Tactical Training, Mobile Field Force Tactics, Patrol Ride-Along, Mobile Digital Computer (in-car computer) Training, Alcohol Abuse, Administration of Discipline, Cultural Diversity, K-9 Operations, Air Support Operations, Bomb Squad, Community Policing and Problem Solving, Spanish Language, Civil Liabilities, and Sexual Harassment Training.

[GrantM]

QUOTE OF THE DAY

"It's as if three or four full Boeing 737s or Airbus A320s were crashing every day, killing everyone on board, in the US." — Dr. Stephen Thrasher, on the coronavirus, which the federal government and many states seem to have given up on trying to do anything about

Danny Kahneman: Stephen, hold my beer.

Thinking, Fast and Slow - Wikipedia