2020 Political Chatter

[Peter Polack]

A fool and their money are easily parted. If you want to donate to pay for law suits and campaign debt, feel free to waste your money.

Today's speculation is just that-The Republican party is asking for donations to fund the lawsuits and will string out the process as long as possible to maximize donations. They'll capitulate at the 24th hour then dupe the people by using the money to pay off the election debt, which was the intention all along.

[72gmc]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN27R309

“It’s pretty dangerous to our democracy to use attacking our elections as a fundraising tool.”

[rwsaunders]

[jclay]

I think it's a twofer: string out the lawsuits to maximize donations now, and plant suspicion good and deep so it sticks. Use the donations and simmering paranoia to cue up a 2024 run.

I'd say that you have an iron grasp of the fundamentals!

The culture wars have gone prime time.

I don't think it's hyperbole or excessively dramatic to opine that our country is, and will continue to be, in peril for quite some time. The problems we face are real and substantial; and the salad days born out of the 40 or so years of industrial dominance resulting from WWII (it built ours while leaving our erstwhile competitors in ash heaps...for a while...and it has nothing to do with "exceptionalism") are over, long gone, and they won't come back. How do you have a large, relatively affluent and restive middle/lower class when the industries which made it all possible have been exported and we no longer have that intellectual/know-how competitive advantage? There are, of course, ways to ameliorate the situation but our culture doesn't seem to have the ability to discuss the options openly and intelligently, never mind actually do anything very effective about it.

As I've said before: My Italian sis-in-law hit the nail on the head some 20 odd years ago when she observed that the USA was on a Third World economic trajectory. I don't see how this ends well, even ignoring climate catastrophes.

[ides1056]

"This man is a pathological liar. He doesn’t know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. And in a pattern that I think is straight out of a psychology textbook, his response is to accuse everybody else of lying.

He accuses everybody on that debate stage of lying. And it’s simply a mindless yell. Whatever he does, he accuses everyone else of doing. The man cannot tell the truth, but he combines it with being a narcissist. A narcissist at a level I don’t think this country has ever seen.

Everything in Donald’s world is about Donald. And he combines being a pathological liar, and I say pathological because I actually think Donald, if you hooked him up to a lie-detector test, he could say one thing in the morning, one thing at noon and one thing in the evening, all contradictory and he’ll pass the lie detector test each time. Whatever lie he’s telling, at that minute he believes it.

(Ted) Cruz added:

Bullies don’t come from strength, bullies come from weakness. Bullies come from a deep, yawning cavern of insecurity."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/o...gtype=Homepage


As for voting irregularities:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/u...gtype=Homepage

basically zero

[sine]

as i've said before: My italian sis-in-law hit the nail on the head some 20 odd years ago when she observed that the usa was on a third world economic trajectory. I don't see how this ends well, even ignoring climate catastrophes.

rofl.

[jclay]

rofl.

Sorry, I mis-quoted; her exact words were that "the USA is on the Central and South American plan". She was referring to economic stratification, increasing economic inequality, extreme concentration of wealth in a tiny demographic while the middle class largely slides into the lower class, that sort of thing. And that is exactly what's been happening.

[Saab2000]

Sorry, I mis-quoted; her exact words were that "the USA is on the Central and South American plan". She was referring to economic stratification, increasing economic inequality, extreme concentration of wealth in a tiny demographic while the middle class largely slides into the lower class, that sort of thing. And that is exactly what's been happening.

That’s a macro issue. The micro issue is getting the GOP and the current occupant of the White House to quit crying about fraud. It’s an attempted coup d’etat and the various Secretaries of State need to be decisive and firm in their language.

This is not as benign or funny as it looks. IMHO.

[echappist]

rofl.

Well, just b/c southern Italy is in some royal s*** doesn't negate validity of the statement. To assert otherwise is a standard tu quoque fallacy

One could be from the poorest Central American or Sub-Saharan country, and that would not prima facie preclude one from critiquing the current state of affairs in the U.S.

Otoh, if this were some Russian or PR China official mouthpiece taking potshots, while it still doesn't detract from the validity, it would veer quite a bit into the "kettle calling pot black" territory as to blunt the effectiveness of the overall message. No different from the juxtaposition of Sec. Pompeo stating that the State Department is withholding visas from officials from countries suppressing democracy, so soon after Sen. Lee of Utah spewing the following drivel.

Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prospefity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.

The word “democracy” appears nowhere in the Constitution, perhaps because our form of government is not a democracy. It’s a constitutional republic. To me it matters. It should matter to anyone who worries about the excessive accumulation of power in the hands of the few.’

Government is the official use of coercive force–nothing more and nothing less. The Constitution protects us by limiting the use of government force.

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You're 100% correct; and I'm not laughing.

I was hoping to drive home what should be the obvious point that there is nothing special about the US; we're not vaccinated against exactly what what you describe; the reality of my SIL's statement is one of the reasons why someone like Trump is able to do what he's doing.

People need to be phoning their GOP MOCs and such as that, and raising hell. I am.

How should I give Sen. Johnson a royal earful? Should I end the missive by saying I fully intend on voting him out?

[sine]

Well, just b/c southern Italy is in some royal s*** doesn't negate validity of the statement. To assert otherwise is a standard tu quoque fallacy

One could be from the poorest Central American or Sub-Saharan country, and that would not prima facie preclude one from critiquing the current state of affairs in the U.S.

Reality will. Of course anyone can critique affairs in any country......I critique politicians (and the single payer healthcare) in one of the countries I lived in.

Despite Trumps crap, I still firmly believe that the USA is a great country....warts and all. Maybe folks here should listen to Biden.

“It’s time to put away the harsh rhetoric, lower the temperature, see each other again, listen to each other again, and to make progress.”

[Bob Ross]

I'm unfamiliar with the context of the Senator Lee quotes, but fwiw, way back at some point in the 1970s when I was a wee lad in junior high school (or maybe high school?) Social Studies class -- some of you may have called it Civics -- this was drummed into our heads:

"our form of government is not a democracy. It’s a constitutional republic."

So ... I don't know if Senator Lee and my Social Studies teachers were wrong, or if Senator Lee and my Social Studies teachers are/were better educated than the current masses. But I found it interesting that the quote from Lee is pretty much verbatim what I was given as the party line almost 50 years ago.

[suspectdevice]

If you aren’t more scared NOW then you were on 11/2, you aren’t paying attention.

The fact that trump wasn’t roundly repudiated has already set back world perception of the US for a generation. This is clearly not a stable country. It certainly isn’t and never has been a free or fair country.
The next authoritarian populist president will be far more competent, and our economic system will not become more fair under the dying gasps of the two party system.

Must we wait patiently upon the deaths of millions of Americans before we move forward, or can we finally move forward on a project to make new nations?

RIP USA

[suspectdevice]

Yes, and if you stop and listen to Americans (I spent the week in the lead up to the election and the last week in GA and S.C.) we are not one nation.
We have two completely different realities, 2 completely different sets of priorities.

One reality is based on science, reasoning and common sense and a desire for more equality(as long as it doesn’t harm corporate personhood and profits!) .
The other reality is based on the negation of all aspects of the Other Reality(as long as it doesn’t hurt corporate personhood and profits).

44 years of mostly-unchecked Regressivism and the complete destruction of our educational system have created this. It will take just as long to fix.

This is the America that Republicans have been conniving for since they sent Dutch up to the Whitehouse. This is the America served by the destruction of Labor and the marriage of neo-liberalism with neo-conservatism and 20 years and trillions of dollars of Nation Building abroad. The United States is a failed democracy with an autocratic strong man and no social safety net.
This is what a country looks like that has spent the past 100 years “fighting global communism” at the expense of serving it’s own people.

Not only must we wait for the death of a large percentage of boomers, we must also wait for a large portion of the population under 50 to cease to breathe and vote.
You can’t fix stupid. Only wait for Stupid to die, and hope that abortion remains safe and legal.

Rememberance Day is probably a fitting time to Pour One Out for The United States.

[jclay]

This is what a country looks like that has spent the past 100 years “fighting global communism” at the expense of serving it’s own people..

That. While not the entire ballgame, most certainly frames and directs it.

Exceptional, indeed.

I had fried mullet during a ride towards the coast the other day; my bro and SIL in Modena, on their ride the same day, had the product of a 500 year old recipe.

[vertical_doug]

Yes, and if you stop and listen to Americans (I spent the week in the lead up to the election and the last week in GA and S.C.) we are not one nation.
We have two completely different realities, 2 completely different sets of priorities.

One reality is based on science, reasoning and common sense and a desire for more equality(as long as it doesn’t harm corporate personhood and profits!) .
The other reality is based on the negation of all aspects of the Other Reality(as long as it doesn’t hurt corporate personhood and profits).

44 years of mostly-unchecked Regressivism and the complete destruction of our educational system have created this. It will take just as long to fix.

This is the America that Republicans have been conniving for since they sent Dutch up to the Whitehouse. This is the America served by the destruction of Labor and the marriage of neo-liberalism with neo-conservatism and 20 years and trillions of dollars of Nation Building abroad. The United States is a failed democracy with an autocratic strong man and no social safety net.
This is what a country looks like that has spent the past 100 years “fighting global communism” at the expense of serving it’s own people.

Not only must we wait for the death of a large percentage of boomers, we must also wait for a large portion of the population under 50 to cease to breathe and vote.
You can’t fix stupid. Only wait for Stupid to die, and hope that abortion remains safe and legal.

Rememberance Day is probably a fitting time to Pour One Out for The United States.

Unfortunately, the younger generation has more supporters of the GOP than you probably realize. Susan Rice's son John Cameron David-Rice is an outspoken conservative supporter of Donald Trump at Stanford. (hopefully, he will outgrow his Ayn Rand moment)

Trump is famous for projecting. So when he says Democrats are trying to steal the election, you know exactly what he is doing.

[thollandpe]

Four-star General (US Army, Ret.) Barry McCaffery:

“I am not an alarmist. Mark me down as alarmed.”

“We are watching a setup, of some people who are unqualified for the office, to be in charge of the 2.1 million men and women of the Armed Forces.”

“This acting Secretary Chris Miller is a perfectly good, experienced combat soldier, [but he] is unqualified for this office.”

“Retired one-star [General, US Army] Tata is a dangerous man.”

“We are in a risky situation right now.”

[echappist]

Unfortunately, the younger generation has more supporters of the GOP than you probably realize. Susan Rice's son John Cameron David-Rice is an outspoken conservative supporter of Donald Trump at Stanford. (hopefully, he will outgrow his Ayn Rand moment)

Trump is famous for projecting. So when he says Democrats are trying to steal the election, you know exactly what he is doing.

I wonder if it's just his rebellious phase. Also, if nothing else, poster child of riding the coattail of his parents; the only reason why anyone would pay attention to him is due to the fame of his parents.

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Also, I should amend my post above. Not all indirect democracies are republics (but the converse would seem to be true). There are numerous EU nation states that are both constitutional monarchies and indirect democracies, where the respective monarchs are nothing more than figureheads. Ditto for Canada and Australia (though there was that infamous constitutional crisis of 1975, when the unelected Governor General dismissed the Prime Minister).

[Mark Kelly]

Australia (though there was that infamous constitutional crisis of 1975, when the unelected Governor General dismissed the Prime Minister).

After a long campaign of destabilising the (mildly left wing) government led by that Prime Minister. Guess which nation's intelligence operatives were active in the destabilisation campaign?

[Chik]

After a long campaign of destabilising the (mildly left wing) government led by that Prime Minister. Guess which nation's intelligence operatives were active in the destabilisation campaign?

Any prizes? :)

[echappist]

After a long campaign of destabilising the (mildly left wing) government led by that Prime Minister. Guess which nation's intelligence operatives were active in the destabilisation campaign?

The one that overthrow the popularly elected government of Iran (thereby begetting us the vile Ayatollah and his minions) and the popularly elected government of Zaire (whose effects still reverberates in Zaire/ DRC today)? I believe said nation was going for a trifecta of sorts?