Trod Harland, Pickle Expediter
Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. — James Baldwin
Does a bike still plane if you only have one leg?
Bill Fernance
Bicycle Shop Owner
Part Time Framebuilder
Bicycle Tragic
The bike would probably not plane if you have 2 legs and both crank arms pointing in the same direction.
Marin Gazzari
I need three people to say shut the mother down.
Josh Simonds
www.nixfrixshun.com
www.facebook.com/NFSspeedshop
www.bicycle-coach.com
Vsalon Fromage De Tęte
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No anonymity allowed down here.
I say shut it down. Nothing further to be gained by the debate. There are no more data points to argue, no more experts to weigh in (not that I'm an expert), and until someone comes up with an emipirical study, just ride what you like.
And, as has been said, this sport is arguably cheaper than psychotherapy. Unless you ask my wife.
Keith Fitzgerald
Maybe someone here could design an actual experiment to prove or disprove the theory. It's not like bikes are propelled by the mysteries of the cosmos. Hell, if Elon Musk can send his Tesla Roadster to Mars, someone should be able to demonstrably prove or disprove Planing.
The problem is that the claim at the core of planing is not that is saves you power but that it makes you put out more power. Good luck designing a simple experiment to prove this - you'd need a full-blown study
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Marin Gazzari
Vienna Austria
At what pressure do you have to run your tires- and what size tires- and how much tension must you build into a wheel- and how stiff of a rim of rim must you use for in the wheel build- and what is the ideal weight of rider? You know, so you can feel the flex of joined steel tubing to determine if it planed?
Chase Anderson
Got some cash
Bought some wheels
Took it out
'Cross the fields
Lost Control
Hit a wall
But we're alright
Somebody say 155 lbs.
Chase Anderson
Got some cash
Bought some wheels
Took it out
'Cross the fields
Lost Control
Hit a wall
But we're alright
Wouldn't it be funny if it actually just came down to which shoes Jan wore on the day?
Chase Anderson
Got some cash
Bought some wheels
Took it out
'Cross the fields
Lost Control
Hit a wall
But we're alright
No, it isn't. It's about power delivery smoothing, at least in my estimation. It's about strain energy reducing peak impulse magnitude (measured at the pedal or chain for example) in exchange for broadening the force v. pedal position curve. That would equal smoother power delivery (which is one reason we're taught to pedal smoothly) and reduced max muscle fiber tension, both being beneficial to performance.
And the notion that what one leg delivers to strain energy the other leg receives, making it a zero sum game, doesn't make sense if you draw a force v pedal position curve and buy the notion that strain energy is being returned to the system as the pedal force diminishes from maximum/near max (which makes sense). Obviously timing v a particular frame's behavior is important.
Clouding the issue by wondering if choice of spoke nipple or other ancillary selections affect this is just that, clouding; a distraction from the subject at issue.
It's actually a pretty interesting technical puzzle and since one can find experienced framebuilding and racing partisans on both sides of the issue, the truth won't be found by one side pounding the table harder.
How about this experiment. Use a pedal based power meter and a hub based power meter and collect raw force data from both. In a perfectly rigid system, they should output identical strain data at any time. Even with all the imperfections of comparing 2 different data collecting mechanisms, a stiffer bike should show a stronger correlation over time than a less stiff bike. I would certainly expect to see power at the hub have a lower maximum than at the pedals. If there is some point in the pedal stroke where power higher at the hub, that would point to some mechanism within the bike absorbing and re-releasing forward impulse.
Or so I would think.
PS Don't kill this thread yet, unless I am being a complete buffoon.
Johnny Selhorst
wannabee newbie amateur frame builder
I'm far from upset my brother. To quote Elvis Costello > I used to be disgusted
and now I try to be amused.
But since their wings have got rusted,
you know, the angels wanna wear my red shoes
Seriously, this is about giggles and riding bikes. Jan's theories are solved by group debate, apparently 'cause it sure as hell is not science. The whole big tires thing, he was right. This is more complicated, alot more complicated and we are trying to position where frame design fits with riders abilities. Toss one human element in there and you got yourself a roaring debat. Cool?
The thread will live.
Josh Simonds
www.nixfrixshun.com
www.facebook.com/NFSspeedshop
www.bicycle-coach.com
Vsalon Fromage De Tęte
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