Horizontal/Track Dropouts with Disc Mount

[seanile]

Is there anything like this that's sold somewhere that isn't a paragon slider or rocker? I can't find anything on ceeway/hj/bikelugs/nova/paragon/etc..
It would be used for SSCX, the important part being the caliper is on the inside and doesn't get in the way of removing the wheel.
Is a gusset with disc tabs mounted to it the only option?

[bencooper]

image.jpg

V1, about half way down this page: What

[11.4]

That's an All City Nature Boy, and that disc setup doesn't work very well. The caliper is canted so the pad contacts the rotor at a funny angle and you don't have much leeway for adjustment. The tabs aren't that precise and take shimming, and if you bend anything, you'll have a tough time getting it straight again. And out of the box, the tabs need to be cleaned off and filed down a bit for the best results.

The best solution I've found is some studs flush on the chain stay that the caliper bolts onto. It's lower profile and you don't need big spacers that increase vibration, and you can run the housing in a number of ways, including up the seat stay with a banjo if you want to go that way.

I've also seen some experimental setups where the caliper hangs under the chain stay. I'm curious why the caliper has to be on the inside of the stays -- it means that if dirt accumulates it won't clear out as easily (and that's a knock on the All City disc design as well). Why reinvent something that works? Until the industry builds for flush studs on frames, I'd just leave the caliper where it's most commonly found right now.

And by the way, for a single-speed, why discs? Mind you, I like hydraulics a lot, but on a single speed canti's or mini-V's will be more than enough, you're just putting weight back on the bike again, and you also are putting more hardware at the hub so you collect more dirt there. With a single speed, if you jam up the cog area, you are SOL because the chain has no slack to ride over any junk that ends up there.

[seanile]

interesting points, thanks for your input. the reason why i was planning it be on the insides of the stays is due to the horizontal nature of the dropouts; sliding the wheel horizontally in-and-out of the caliper with the access of normal caliper mounts would be like trying to pull the wheel out with fenders getting in the way..the inside position eliminates lateral interference. however, i hadn't considered the accumulation of gunk, nor the issue of the angling and shimming required.

the reason for discs was for purely aesthetic reasons because i wanted to ride the bike as a front-brake only fixed gear off season and would rather not have canti posts sticking off the stays (would have a second road caliper-capable fork made). but given that i just discovered some plastic plugs for the removable canti posts, i may go that direction after all.

thanks for the input and knowledge, much appreciated.

[Jake Rosenfeld]

The Coture (Coconino/vulture:) drops are fanfriggintastic. you cant buy them but you can look at how they solved the problem.

check Steves blog, I'm sure you can mine a photo or two.........

[seanile]

^interesting execution. curious how the wheel does sliding in and out.

[Will Neide]

I've also seen some experimental setups where the caliper hangs under the chain stay. I'm curious why the caliper has to be on the inside of the stays -- it means that if dirt accumulates it won't clear out as easily (and that's a knock on the All City disc design as well). Why reinvent something that works? Until the industry builds for flush studs on frames, I'd just leave the caliper where it's most commonly found right now.

And by the way, for a single-speed, why discs? Mind you, I like hydraulics a lot, but on a single speed canti's or mini-V's will be more than enough, you're just putting weight back on the bike again, and you also are putting more hardware at the hub so you collect more dirt there. With a single speed, if you jam up the cog area, you are SOL because the chain has no slack to ride over any junk that ends up there.

Just to touch a few points without throwing this on a complete tangent. The build up of dirt and mud on the caliper isn't an issue when mounted on a chainstay, at least, no more of an issue when mounted on the seatstay. Aesthetically, it's more integrated with the bike and the caliper blends in a little more visually. It's also easier to mount racks on the rear when the caliper on the chainstay. Yes, I know you can still mount racks when it's mounted on the seatstay, but there is a little less complexity when you don't have the caliper in the way.

Singlespeeds and discs......contrary to popular belief, we don't always ride/race singlespeed because they are lighter. And we still like consistant braking. So, your choice of braking apparatus is an independent choice from your drivetrain and the two really have no relation on each other. FWIW, CX Worlds just put disc brakes on the top step and bottom step of the podium. Not bad for "heavy technology" from the 90's.

To the OP, I don't think there is anything commercially available for a chainstay mounted, horizontal tab drop out. I'd agree with Ben on going with the tab and making your own.


Edited to add: All my bikes have chainstay mounted calipers. 2 of which are singlespeed (CX and MTB).

[steve garro]

^interesting execution. curious how the wheel does sliding in and out.

Just fine, actually - that's a V. 1.0 Coco-Moto there, the dropout slot has been shortened, the lower disc mount as well, I'm up to V. 4.0 now, and they are very honed in - they will hit a three tooth jump perfectly, as in you can rock say an 18-19-20T "cluster" on a 1-speed cassette and hit them all spot-on.

If you have the wheel sucked up all the way to the front you have to swing up the caliper for removal on some models, but if your wheel is more then 1/4" or so from the front it will come right out when you wish.

I must have 50-60 pairs out there now.

- Garro.

[Amaro Bikes]

Why don't you tru to make your own?
I'm the less skilled man around here and even me managed to make my own disc tabs for single/disc dropouts. I used paragon horizontal dropouts and then modified one of the thick plated disc mounts with a round file, making the bolt holes accordingly to the axle slide. You just leave the disc jig axle loose so to know what "curve" are the bolts "drawing" on the disc tab and then filefilefile till it works.
I did it on seatstay welded tab, but it should be exactly the same for chainstay version, even easier as it would not be as much a "curve" as a simple "line"


Cheers

[seanile]

id love to but i dont own any jigs, havent made any yet, and am learning/pacticing tig still (don't know how to braze). so this question was asked with a lot of..foresight i guess? so if i never get up to snuff/don't fall in love with the work, then i wanted to know if there was something i could request during a commission too.

[steve garro]

id love to but i dont own any jigs, havent made any yet, and am learning/pacticing tig still (don't know how to braze). so this question was asked with a lot of..foresight i guess? so if i never get up to snuff/don't fall in love with the work, then i wanted to know if there was something i could request during a commission too.

An Anvil feng-shui is an great asset & not a huge investment

- Garro.

[Amaro Bikes]

Agree with Steve, there's also a cheaper version on novacycles which works fine.
NOVA ISO REAR DISK BRAKE JIG :: TOOLS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

[Will Neide]

An Anvil feng-shui is an great asset & not a huge investment

- Garro.

.....or Post Punk. Both great little tools. Totally worth the money.

[Rody]

id love to but i dont own any jigs, havent made any yet, and am learning/pacticing tig still (don't know how to braze). so this question was asked with a lot of..foresight i guess? so if i never get up to snuff/don't fall in love with the work, then i wanted to know if there was something i could request during a commission too.

Sean,

At your stage, you don't even need a fixture for disc brakes...use the brake caliper you will for the build to get the bolt eye spacing right, calculate you slot length based on the rear dropout travel, and then clamp it all together with the wheel on to find the correct mitering height and then tack that thang!

Then you can have something cool like this...

small dropout cao.jpg

[shirk]

Jigs???? No need for fancy jigs.



The Anvil would be nice, but I have many other things higher on the priority list before that.

[steve garro]

Jigs???? No need for fancy jigs.



The Anvil would be nice, but I have many other things higher on the priority list before that.

I rocked a Ho-Made one for years, the coolio thing about the Anvil is the brazing clearance it affords

- Garro.

[Rody]

...the coolio thing about the Anvil is the brazing clearance it affords

- Garro.

No doubt, Don makes the shiz-nit and is worth twice the price for the ease of use.

r