Dropouts

[Amaro Bikes]

I was kind of dreaming of a wonderful place where most skilled people in the world opened their minds so rest of mortals could drink from such a knowledge fountain in search of understanding.... and wait a minute... such a place exists...
So, here I throw another annoying "I want to know" post:
DROPOUTS!
Although all techniques/styles/uses/materials/etc are welcome to be discussed, my main window is open to steel/tig welding needs, being my own preferences/experiences tuned with:

-Non replaceable hangers at all
-Cast (no machined, no stamped, no 3d printed, no...)
-Hooded (and simple without fancy ornaments, as classic breeze/wright style ones)

My reasons are based on personal views and experiences but being such an important and vital part on the bike, this time I will pretty much seat down and listen as my voice should be a simple shadow of experienced lights (you know who you are... thanks)

[Lionel]

I find the new Marcelo dropouts awesome.

[e-RICHIE]

I don't think dropouts should be homages to Calder, or Brancusi, Serra, or even Bobbie Carlyle atmo. But that's just me.

[Saab2000]

The dropouts on my Pacenti are massive. Yeah, replaceable derailleur hanger, but I think that's a good thing.

The red/white/green coloring came off my Sidi shoe when I crashed in 2012. No idea how it got there but strange things happen in crashes. It's permanently in the paint and doesn't come off.

Anyway, shifting is superior with a stiff dropout and stiff derailleur hanger.

Yes, it's dirty and yes, it's getting a new chain soon....

[Curt Goodrich]

Drop outs should hold the wheels and rear derailleur. Drop outs should be parallel to one another. Drop outs should allow the builder to impart some sense of craft through their hands rather than that of a CNC machine. But I'm funny that way.

[progetto]

Like all other parts on the bike, they should be up to the task that is called upon them to do and should be invisible to the mind. The ride is the ride ( a bit of e-Richie type philosophy there).

[Will Neide]

BREEZE STYLE DROPOUT WITHOUT EYELET :: DROPOUTS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

Hooded, cast, solid hanger

MTB DISK dropout for 29er and 26er IC :: MTB DROPOUTS :: STEEL DROPOUTS :: DROPOUTS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

The second one is post mount. It does have a replaceable hanger though. Not a fan of the hole cutouts, but they could be filled in if you were intent on eliminating the holes.

[adarn]

I'm not planning on building any more frames without a replaceable hanger after nearly ripping a DO in half when my derailleur decided to shift into the spokes.

[steve garro]

MTB DISK dropout for 29er and 26er IC :: MTB DROPOUTS :: STEEL DROPOUTS :: DROPOUTS :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc.

The second one is post mount. It does have a replaceable hanger though. Not a fan of the hole cutouts, but they could be filled in if you were intent on eliminating the holes.

Holy shit, those are hideous.
- Garro.

[steve garro]

1/4" Thick 4130 plate relieved to 3/16th where applicable, not too big of windows, no bolt on disposable hanger, machined from one piece, not cast.
My preference, anyway.
- Garro

[dgaddis]

I wouldn't have a MTB that didn't have a replaceable hanger. Seen too many get ripped off or otherwise mangled.

[shirk]

I wouldn't have a MTB that didn't have a replaceable hanger. Seen too many get ripped off or otherwise mangled.

How many steel ones have you had ripped off?

It's the crapy alu hangers that shear off.

[dgaddis]

I bent the non-replaceable steel one on my commuter in a crash. Fairly mild crash at that.

[Rosko]

I mainly use the hooded style, some cast, occasionally the Black Cat, e-richie's on brazed forks and from time to time I'll make a batch of laser as need be...

[Amaro Bikes]

Drop outs should hold the wheels and rear derailleur. Drop outs should be parallel to one another. Drop outs should allow the builder to impart some sense of craft through their hands rather than that of a CNC machine. But I'm funny that way.

Well, although I do agree on what a dropout should be for, I think there's much more into it than just it, or in other words, to properly do their job they need to have certain specifications. They could hold the wheels, be parallel, but completely unreliable, so those dropouts would not be right. Same happens with disc brake tab contact points, etc.
And this is why I asked a bit about such question as dropouts, because I can have my own ideas and likes based on my own procedure and experiences
-hooded dropouts allowing for infinite angle configuration
-hooded dropout as feeling them more appropiate for the tig welding bead (opposite to for example brazing were plate or plug dropouts allow for bigger contact surface and capilarity questions)
-Non replaceable hanger as with steel bikes I feel unnecesary (a bend at most) and all the alu replaceable hangers are more likely into breaking situation, or simply the small tightening bolts.
-Don't like sliding or "complicated" dropouts as they add incredible amount of weight away from the mass center of the bike and not even thinking on the much higher price which might unbalance my profit equation.
-etc

But none of those are "facts" neither I can justify them with engineering figures or chemical reactions, it is just a consecuence on how my actual building procedure works and based on my very limited experience and knowledge, nothing compared with those with 10,20,30 years of workbench time, and I was curious to know what those gfited minds have to say based on their own experiences.

Not to speak about the "sense of craft" question, to me it probably stands at the very last place of the priorities. If one day I can manage to master my building process (I doubt this could ever happen in life, as it's an endless loop of learning), I might then go into fancy/art prints, till then I much rather prefer to focus on function, leaving the form on the art scene.

Cheers

[Britishbane]

Speaking of dropouts:


Back on target, if you look closely you'll see the points are squared off just so. Very cool detail.

[Too Tall]

Britishbane, that there represents some good old common sense.

[steve garro]

I bent the non-replaceable steel one on my commuter in a crash. Fairly mild crash at that.

Cast, or machined?
Big difference.
- Garro.

[surlypud]

Cast, or machined?
Big difference.
- Garro.

The difference being that machined dropouts are weaker?

[steve garro]

The difference being that machined dropouts are weaker?

the other way around.
Casting is more porous.
But, there are castings, and there are castings.

Personally I find that ones machined from plate 4130 steel are exceptionally durable.

Derailleur to spokes incidents are 100% due to the user or whoever they choose to have adjust their bike.
Derailleurs don't just jump into the spokes - the limit screws are maladjusted, the bike falls down and the replaceable hanger tweaks or the mech bends and rather then look it just gets ridden and in the spokes it goes........I've seen most all of it in my mechanic days.

Sure, you have your stick in the spokes incidents, but even then do you just bolt that unit back on and it's fine?
Not too often.

If that's your thing that's fine - we all do things for reasons we learned along the way - don't do things just because I say - let your decades of experience lead you.
- Garro.