Let's talk Time Trials

[jscottyk]

Couple questions on the topic of position.

What's the thinking for setup on road bikes for TT's? Just ride it as it but in the drops? Or move the saddle forward bit? Or something else?

What's the thinking on TT position for aero bikes? There are VOLUMEs written on position for tri-bikes, but very little on TT setup. Are the two the same?

[DOOFUS]

leave your saddle where it is and just get in the drops

moving your saddle forward by a few mm or cm, and dropping the step a few mm, would make a minimal difference in frontal area on a road bike, and you'd lose power.

ride in the position you've adapted to and get that nose on the stem

[jscottyk]

leave your saddle where it is and just get in the drops

moving your saddle forward by a few mm or cm, and dropping the step a few mm, would make a minimal difference in frontal area on a road bike, and you'd lose power.

ride in the position you've adapted to and get that nose on the stem

Cool. That's kind what I figured.

[Moke]

I have a full on aero rig that don't get rid much. I can go pretty fast on it, but I just don't get it. It is crazy to show up at the local TT and see all the cool shit come out of the closets. I do 95% of my TT s on a fixed gear round tube non aero nothing bike. My current one is a road geometry Hampsten Max frame(s). Back in the day I did a low 57 min 25 mile fixed TT and am still trying to sneak in under the hour for a 40k, no aero nothing. Sometimes I slap on the rear disc wheel, deep front, skinsuit, booties, and aero helmet. But some days no areo nothing seems about right for the day.
To me fixed is the only way to do a TT. No brains no headache, push the pedals as hard as you can. We don't need no stinkin gears. I rarely do the Eddy or age group category. In the TT it is all scratch race run what ya brung and if you get 35th out of 37 in the open/pro so be it.
I sort of disagree with with some of the posters. TT and CX to me are a lot alike. CX has more start and stop stuff, but both are full gas from the flag to the finish. Take no prisoners, on the rivet the whole time racing. And you finish in a heap in both types of racing. Just one of them you are covered in mud. Both types of racing require big power numbers and us bigger guys actually have a chance.

[TandemRider]

Couple questions on the topic of position.

What's the thinking for setup on road bikes for TT's? Just ride it as it but in the drops? Or move the saddle forward bit? Or something else?

What's the thinking on TT position for aero bikes? There are VOLUMEs written on position for tri-bikes, but very little on TT setup. Are the two the same?

BID the thinking was to move seat forward and up keeping the same distance from center of BB to seat, install 2.5mm longer arms and 1 tooth larger big ring. I don't know if it really helped or if we just thought it did. We didn't have no tryathlete bars an' we LIKED it that way... ;^)

[Too Tall]

I've got two sets and another company made something even better after Scott. Agreed.
I'd have a hard time with any discussion of "the rules" for E.M. Time Trials. If it was my world there would be one judge and his word would be law. Arrive honoring the intention of E.M. and leave everything on the road. The big motor (almost) always wins, suffering and not talking about it trumps all. Do it for the sport, ignore the idiots and race your race than hang in the parking lot with like minded people. Look for me at some local TTs this coming year.

you can't find them now (and they'd be useless on some bars) but those old Scott Rakes were the shit for TT'ing on a road bike.

I used to do 60-90min threshold/tempo rides tucked in the rakes to get used to that positon -- you could get pretty aero in those, but it took some arm and core strength to hold it for a long time.

[MarkC]

Most people who argue about Eddy rules don't race Eddy or have any intention of doing so. It's just grumpy OFs who hate carbon wheels and anything else created after 1970 spouting off.

Eddy should be: Show up, ride, puke, drink a beer. Done and dusted.

[Moke]

I also have the love for The Scott Rakes . Another trick that I can"t do that well anymore is to ride with your hands on the tops right next to the stem. That part is easy, getting the nose on top of the hands, not so much. That is the original "aero" position and takes some work to hold for long periods. John Cobb looked at that in the wind tunnel probably 20 years ago and liked it. You used to see a few old roadies use that to jump up to a break or ride a crushing pull humped up like that.
I still have a couple Spinaci bars by Cinelli. Those puppies work too.

[MarkC]

Extensions:

Straight pipes are generally worse position for the wrist

S-Bends are better but also require the wrist to flex forward and down which can be uncomfortable

Lazy-S bends are better then S-bends as they require less flexion in the wrist.

Ski bends put the wrist in the most natural position

Custom bends from 7/8" x 0.065 wall aluminum tubing can allow the best of all worlds with optimal hand positioning. But this is the "insane TT'er" solution.

NOTE: if you care about UCI rules you need to consider that topic.


If you are considering a base bar system the Zipp alumina set-up is a very good value and allows a large range of positioning options. Personally I have some stupid expensive 3T carbon stuff. But if I were building a new bike or aero bike on a budget I'd be on the alumina system for sure.

Hope that helped with the earlier question.


FWIW, there are some ways to get a high % of aero benefit w/out spending your whole bank account. The biggest gains are from positioning and there are a number of inexpensive frames that can get you there. Chinese / taiwan open mold stuff or a P2C or P3C that has been collecting dust when someone bought a new Shiv or P5. The Specialized Transition is also a good frame that can be had for cheap. Disk covers convert any number of wheels into a "pretty good" rear wheel solution. For the front, most folks have a Zipp 404 or something like that for their road race bike already. Just use that. The TriSpoke is still a great front wheel and can be found used for low $$$. Parts wise, the Zipp cockpit system works well and for drive train something like 105 level parts are just dandy. Make sure all cables are routed cleanly etc etc.

Folks get wound-up about aero wars and high cost TT/Tri solutions because people are gear heads and love to spend money. But you don't have to spend a pile of money to build a very effective TT rig. In fact, I'd argue not to until you have raced a fair number of TTs and have your position well sorted. Then you can chase the last gram of aero drag

There are always equipment churners selling last years high zoot bike in favor of this years. Those guys are a great source of equipment as y'all know.

--Mark

[suhacycles]

Tried some S-bend clip ons (Performace Forte) on Friday for the first time. Yeah, that wrist flexion downward was not comfortable so going to get old-school ski bend ones. I think there are some cheap ones made by Tec9. Felt like I had to have a firm grip when one wasn't needed. Moved the saddle up and forward, and coupled with a shorter stem it meant some knee to elbow contact at times. This is gonna take some time... on a good note, I had the highest avg speed (~18 mph) for a recovery ride ever! =O

[BSUdude]

I have a quite nice TT rig that I bought back in my triathlon days that I've been thinking about selling for the past couple months. Now that I am pretty much a 1 discipline athlete, it gets ridden about 2 or 3 times a year at local TTs. I never train on it. My focus is not TTs. If it was I would certainly keep it. But considering all things and the stuff in this thread, I'm thinking I'm just going to try to get some money for it and go EM style on my road bike at future TTs. I figure that if I do TTs as training anyway, learning to get low and fast and hammer in the road bike position can only help for the races I care more about anyway, probably more than hammering on a TT setup. Now the real trick will be to see if I can still go sub 1 hour on my road bike...I'm thinking that will be a tough ask.

Anyone in the market for an 09 specialized transition? It's slutty red...

[Tamu8104]

I was TT'ing a decent amount for a while and was fully engaged in the aero arms race. Last year I sold my TT bike and actually didn't replace it with another. I have a aero road frame which I ride a lot and created a "quick" TT set up for it. This involves:
A separate ISP topper with TT specific saddle that is moved forward and up slightly
A set of clip-on aero bars with Di2 shifters on the extensions that I can plug into my current Di2

For me this is a quick TT set up without having a lot of resources tied up in a TT frame. I also have a set of ENVE 8.9s that I can throw on the bike which also helps.

[sine]

To me fixed is the only way to do a TT.

Years ago, one of D.C. metro area's top Time Trialists kicked butt on his fixed gear kit. Incredible talent and as tough as they come.