I make knives too

[pkb]

Softer steel works for some people because they love sharpening--and sometimes love enough to want to sharpen every hour.

As I understand it, there are two really significant variables that determine how a steel will work as a knife: the hardness and the grain structure. Hardness is measured with a diamond point pressed into the steel by calibrated weights. Diamond will go further into softer steel with the same weight. Grain size is tougher to measure, but in general, bigger grain size means a toothier edge and will be harder to sharpen--but it will keep a working edge longer.

Hardened steel is a lattice of different crystals--or grains. A way to think about it could be to imagine making a blade out of stuck together gravel or fine beach sand. The edge made out of beach sand can come to a finer and more uniform point, but the edge made of gravel will probably stay aggressive longer. Generally, people use the fine-grained steels for stuff where a really really sharp edge is useful--razors, surgery stuff--and the coarser grained steels for hunting and outdoor knives where longevity is more useful.

For sharpening, steels with fine grain structures are usually easier to sharpen. The grains themselves are carbides and they're ultra-hard. The process of sharpening is a mix of shearing these crystals out of the lattice or wearing the carbides down. Big grain = tough sharpening. Small grain = easier edge sharpening/shaping.

Most high-carbon steels lend themselves to having a nice fine grain structure. It's possible to mess it up during heat treat, but most makers manage not to. The recipes for a good heat treat for those steels are pretty well known. Stainless steels are much more likely to develop big grains because of how much chromium is in the alloy and what happens when carbon and chromium are in solution at ~2000deg f and quenched. There are some stainless alloys that keep a very tight small grain structure (AEB-L) and also get VERY hard. For someone who likes to sharpen, I think there's nothing better.

Personally, I like knives that are harder rather than softer. There are plenty that prefer the quick and buttery smooth sharpening on softer carbon steels.

Right and left handed: if you were in Japan, you'd get yelled at for holding a knife in the "wrong hand". They have a very developed knife/cook relationship and use single-bevel knives for most of their traditional cooking. Using the bevel on the side closer to the food doesn't let the knife work like it should. A double-bevel knife, which is pretty much anything available in the US, shouldn't care which hand it's used by.

People who love carbon steel are becoming rare. It's a shame, because most high-carbon steels are great for knives, and a chef that keeps their high-carbon blades in good shape will be practicing good habits of cleanliness and respectful maintenance.

-Patrick

Question for you. Would love to hear your thoughts regarding kitchen knives that are made from softer steel? What is the fascination with Stainless which I find difficult to deal with. I'm pretty good at sharpening knives but I grew up using high carbon steel and I'm used to the way it dulls and how to keep an edge when I'm mowing thru the makings for a holiday feast.
Last, I'm left hand dominant for dicing and switch hands for some heavy work. Matters?

[drietz]

Patrick - those are beautiful. I've been needing a new chef's knife...

[Too Tall]

Good stuff Pat. Can I call you Pat? I'm pretty much done with my Henckle Pro Chef 10". I've tolerated the bloody thing for at least 5 years enough is enough. As you say some people love them. If I could get a knife with a stout spine similar to the Henckle with the lovely high carbon steel of my 50 year old Sabatier I'd be a happy boy. You hinted at the issues here, it comes down to style. I'm that guy, I stop to clean my knife frequently and might hit it with a stone before dinner prep.

This is excellent work:
http://www.pkbhandmade.com/?page_id=208
Walnut and 1095 8.5" Chef's Knife

I'm a soft touch at this point and I've actually used one of your knives at a good pals house who BTW never freakin' sharpened a knife in his live but the blade was still sharp....kudos.

Just for giggles, I think there are plenty of people like myself who want a knife that will rust (wink wink). What would you make for a knucklehead like me?

[pkb]

I wonder whose knife you tried... maybe Jeff? If so, that was the first, or one of the first, knives I ever made for sale to anyone. That must have been in 2006.

I have a 10" chef knife that is a mature design (Kitchen | PKB Handmade, bottom of the page) that I could make out of 1095. If you like the extra length, that's what I'd pick for you. Those three (5", 8", 10") have gone through lots of iterations and tiny adjustments over the past year and they're pretty much a completed design project. The only change I'm probably going to make to any of them will be to move the forward pin back a little on the 5" model. I'd harden your blade to 58-59 to get a good mix of hardness and workability (still harder than "store knives").

Sounds like fun, right?

[Jason Musgrave]

TT, you need something out of 1095.

[Too Tall]

TT, you need something out of 1095.

Done.

Pat? Talk to me man. What do you need? I do almost everything with a 10" chefs with exception of heavy bone splitting for that I'll save the Henckle or my cleaver. My go to sharpening tools in the kitchen include a steel (yeah yeah I know it's edge maintenence not sharpening) and a diamond rod. When I need to fix a nick or make it pretty I use Arkansas stones.
Go for it.

[pkb]

I'm still puzzled by the large-scale agreement with edge maintenance using a steel: unless the steel is mirror polished, which most are not, I can only imaging the steel distressing or roughing up the edge rather than smoothing it. For a dull knife, a serrated or rough steel seems like it might rough up enough edge to give the blade some tooth and tearing ability, but for a real edge that's bent over and needs to be brought back into line (early stage dullness), I can't see it being a great idea. I like a mirror'd steel, and that seems to work pretty well a few times. It's used with a very light touch--almost no pressure. If the edge needs more than that, it's time to sharpen on a stone or strop depending on the edge you want.


I can get a knife done by early- to mid-january these days. We can work out the fine print.

...and, after much pondering, I'm guessing the knife you met was Steve W's, right? That was a good one...got some coaching in trade. These days, all I need is someone to tell me to go ride, at all, any distance, for any reason. There's not a glimmer of a race on my horizon--and many pounds and hours of training stand between me and the back of a cat 4 field.