Record/Nemesis: New shoes for my stainless Hampsten

[giordana93]

thought I would give this one a bump and nomination for the wiki area. lots of good info and gallery shots here

[Blue Jays]

One of the most helpful threads this year. Excellent!

[Dorman]

Forgot about this, but here is a shot of a Nemesis with a black White Ind. H2 front hub for a black vs. silver reference.

[maunahaole]

Does anyone have any experience with the PMP hubs? Saw some on a website, they looked awfully nice and quite expensive. They seem to have a lot of choices as to drilling, spacing and compatibility.

[El Chaba]

Does anyone have any experience with the PMP hubs? Saw some on a website, they looked awfully nice and quite expensive. They seem to have a lot of choices as to drilling, spacing and compatibility.

I built a set of wheels with PMP hubs/Sapim cX-rays and mavic mach 2 rims last year. WRT the hubs, they are awesome. the bearing quality is superb, they are very well engineered and the machining/finishing of the shells is excellent. I like to say that they are very mercedes-like...there are some hubs on the market that may be a little lighter, but I don't think there are any that are better engineered. Many...most.... of the small-maker hubs on the market have flaws, poor design, poor durability, etc...the PMP's are an exception. I give them three thumbs up.

[davids]

thought I would give this one a bump and nomination for the wiki area. lots of good info and gallery shots here

Agreed. Wikified for our future reference.

[shanerpvt]

WI right flange not better. The advantage of WI would be silver option and more spoke count choices. Campy is better for 32 spoke rear wheels.

DT is an interesting one. The right flange spacing is better, but the left flange is about 1cm closer to center compared to WI. That results in more even tension, but less lateral stiffness. With 32 spoke wheel, I would consider using heaver gauge spokes on both sides to get some of that lost stiffness back. For example, I would lace a Campagnolo and WI hub with 1.7mm butted spokes on the drive side and 1.5mm butted spokes on the non drive side. I would lace a DT hub (same rim and spoke count) with 1.7mm butted spokes on both sides. All the spokes I'm referring to have 2.0mm ends. The 1.5mm spokes are Sapim Lasers and the 1.7mm are Wheelsmith DB14s.

-Eric

So for a 32 spoke wheel, you like the campy hubs out of the 3 mentioned above?

edit: i only ask as I have a pair of 32h nemesis in the garage waiting for hubs.
thanks, shaner

[fixednwinter]

It would be wise to follow ergott's advice on the Campy hubs. In addition, price-wise, the Record hubs are suprisingly inexpensive, even compared to good value hubs like White Industries.

Record uses cup and cone bearings, not sealed cartridge bearings. I've been using a pair with clincher rims for three or four years, for winter training in snow and slush, and I've found that an annual re-pack is more than enough to keep them running smooth. Unless you blast a high pressure hose at the hubs or submerge them, the bearings seem to hold up against wet weather. Subjectively, the cup and cone Record bearings also feel like they run smoother than my DT 240's. I don't have any measurable basis to prove this is fact, probably just my imagination.

[Dorman]

Here is a set I just finished up. These are the silver White Industries hubs with Wheelsmith 2.0/1.7/2.0 spokes laced 3X with alloy nips. 766 gram front wheel 916 gram rear for a 1682 gram total. Not bad for a Nemesis wheelset. As cool as the Nemesis rims are I prefer the Crono Formula 20 for guys under 170 lbs. on average roads. They are normally available in 28 hole for the front and have the same etching as the Nemesis while being 50-60 grams lighter per rim. Thanks to Richard for the NAHBS booth trinket.

[Patch]

White Industries on some Major Toms. I wanted some cronos, but 20mm is too skinny.

It's springtime!

[fixednwinter]

766 gram front wheel 916 gram rear for a 1682 gram total. Not bad for a Nemesis wheelset. As cool as the Nemesis rims are I prefer the Crono Formula 20 for guys under 170 lbs. on average roads. They are normally available in 28 hole for the front and have the same etching as the Nemesis while being 50-60 grams lighter per rim.

Hi Dorman;

With the lighter Crono F20 rims and let's say 28 hole on the front,(sticking with 32h for the rear), in your experience, what would you say a wheel set would come in at?

[Dorman]

Hi Dorman;

With the lighter Crono F20 rims and let's say 28 hole on the front,(sticking with 32h for the rear), in your experience, what would you say a wheel set would come in at?

I've recently done a few of those. DT240 hubs with Crono F20 rims, 28 2X front/32 3X rear came in at 1380g with DT Revolution spokes and alloy nips. You can ride them, but don't race them in a crit. Rear wheel gets a little squirrely with the crap flange spacing. Also did a set with Alchemy hubs and Revs 28 2X front and 32 3X drive/2X non-drive that came in at 1360g. These rock. No problems with lateral flex in corners at all. A little heavier/stronger guy we would take the rear spokes from 14/17/14 DB to 14/15/14 DB and eliminate all questions. This would add 35-45 grams for the heavier spokes on the rear wheel. I typically have the Crono F20 rims come in at 370-375 grams each vs. the Nemesis at 430-440 grams. For reference a set of Crono's with WI hubs would be just under 1400 grams for the set with Revs or Lasers. All of these with alloy nipples. And of course none of this is applicable to Disturbed.

Chris

[fixednwinter]

Also did a set with Alchemy hubs and Revs 28 2X front and 32 3X drive/2X non-drive that came in at 1360g. These rock. No problems with lateral flex in corners at all.

Whoa....that set-up sounds awesome. The Nemesis wheels I have are my favourite riding wheels ever, no question. But for those smooth, hilly roads, the wheels you describe would be perfect. Like your Nemesis set, mine are around the same, about 1660 grams. Imagine knocking off 300 grams of rotating weight with the Crono/Alchemy...

[Dorman]

Sorry this is a little late. Here's a couple shots of the S1 with Alchemy hubs and Crono rims. This is a seriously nice ride for anyone sub-huge. Sorry for the blurr. I wasn't using a flash, just a little pale ale.

[jsmillerjr]

These ride quite nice......

[fixednwinter]

@ Dorman: very tasteful Crono/Alchemy build. I really like the red option for the hubs, and that the Crono rims also have the large Ambrosio block lettering, like the Nemesis.

@ jsmillerjr: Nice Hed hand-builts. I assume those are from Justin? How does the 23mm rim ride? Stiffer and more rigid? How's the comfort with the slightly bigger air volume?

[jsmillerjr]

@ jsmillerjr: Nice Hed hand-builts. I assume those are from Justin? How does the 23mm rim ride? Stiffer and more rigid? How's the comfort with the slightly bigger air volume?

Yes they are from Justin, very professional transaction, highly recommended. Anyway on to the wheels. The first set of wheels I have that are geared toward comfort are Chris King classic hubs laced to Ambrosio Nemesis rims with Challenge 27's. This was my first set of tubular wheels and the ride difference over the clinchers (25's) was dramatic. I know part of the reason is the bigger tire but not all of it I don't think. I would have been 100% happy to use the Nemesis rims on this new build but I needed them at a time when the Nemesis were scarce. Justin suggested the Hed's as an option and because of their extra strength was able to build with a lower spoke count. The combination of the Hed rims, Alchemy hubs, the lower spoke count, and again Challenge 27's produced a very very nice wheel. They me be only slightly less "comfortable" than my Nemesis set but in my humble opinion are significantly stiffer laterally. I don't think anybody would be disappointed with these.

[Dorman]

@ Dorman: very tasteful Crono/Alchemy build. I really like the red option for the hubs, and that the Crono rims also have the large Ambrosio block lettering, like the Nemesis.

Thanks, I really like the red hubs and nips on that bike. I might try them on my flat clear Crumpton as well and see how they look.

Here's another set I just finished up yesterday. White Industries H2/H3 Shimano drive with Crono F20 rims. It is a 28 spoke front 2 cross with Rev's and alloy nipples. The rear is 32 spoke with Comp's on the drive in 3 cross and Rev's on the non-drive in 2 cross all with alloy nipples. Same build as what I have been using except with the White Ind. hubs. The weights came in at 614 g front and 822 g rear for a total of 1436 g. They feel really light and it is a very classic look. My Alchemy set came in around 1380 grams, so an extra couple of ounces to save $200 on hubs is really not that bad. You're really feeling that weight at the rim more than at the hub when you are riding anyway.

[Dorman]

Here's a set I did for a customer with some NOS DA-7700 hubs he had. I did a 32 3X build all around with CX-Rays and alloy nipples. Since the hubs are tanks the build came in at 1700 grams even with the light spokes and nipples. And if you couldn't tell I've been playing with the photo editor on this one!

[teleguy57]

I have a new Ti Hampsten coming next week, and also thinking about new shoes. Have just built up a set of Hed Belgian clinchers on C-4 hubs, Sapim Race 32 3x and will be running Open Pave CGs on them (love those tires!). Thinking about a set of sewups as well, and wondering about the Nemesis vs the Hed C2 tubular rim. Haven't picked out hubs yet (when will CK do their rear for Campy???) but thinking either 28/28, 32/32 or 28/32.

Who's used both rims and how do they compare for you?