It's getting harder and harder for me to buy stuff that's Made in China

[9tubes]

The most authoritarian thing that can be done is to drop bombs on people. Second would be to force a government on a people, particularly by creating or supporting a dictatorship.

Foreign policy is about persuasion. America cannot persuade others when the response to its finger-wagging is a snort of laughter.

[spopepro]

The most authoritarian thing that can be done is to drop bombs on people. Second would be to force a government on a people, particularly by creating or supporting a dictatorship.

Foreign policy is about persuasion. America cannot persuade others when the response to its finger-wagging is a snort of laughter.

I disagree that the response is always a snort of laughter. The Huawei sanctions have had a major impact. Consistency is required to push a change in behavior, but economic sanctions work, especially when in specific response to behavior that needs to change. Now, the vapid public arguments, name calling, and citizen boycotts... yeah, those get a snort of laughter.

[BBB]

The most authoritarian thing that can be done is to drop bombs on people. Second would be to force a government on a people, particularly by creating or supporting a dictatorship.

Foreign policy is about persuasion. America cannot persuade others when the response to its finger-wagging is a snort of laughter.

While I agree that recent elements of US foreign policy have not been great, persuading authoritarian states or leaders to ease up is a very hard ask.

I can't see this working: "Hi Vlad. It's Joe...What's that? Yes we're glad he's gone too. Listen, me and Anthony were having a chat the other day and we think it is past time for Russia to stop being a police state and to start back on the path to openness that it started to tread in the late 80s. I think this means, at the very least, that the following has to take place: (1). You'll need to step down as President (2). There needs to be free and fair elections to decide who is to lead Russia and none of this 99.5% of people voted for me business. There's a number of other countries that can help you out. Just not us as our elections are a circus. (3). The oligarchs need to give back the stuff they stole from the state. (4). Stop poisoning people at home and abroad. (5) Stop all that hacking and interfering in elections. You think you can get this in place by Christmas? Thanks. And before you stand down, please have your people send through the pee tape to my people. I don't suppose you want him to do? No didn't think so, but you don't know until you ask. Cheers."

[vertical_doug]

If you want goods that comes from your country, you have to accept the pollution that will inherently go with it.

Who wants a huge factory in his neighborhood?

This is how I always looked at our trade with China. We buy your cheap shit, and you get our pollution. (just google Pittsburgh pollution in the 60's and 70's)

No one hands here are clean. I was a event with a woman who is trying to shutdown the global Rhino horn trade. According to her, the biggest buyers are now the Vietnamese. When they close a large business deal, it is fashionable to have rhinoceros horn.

So when you buy The North Face, or some other goretex/rain proof product, chances are you are contributing to this since much of the global outdoor clothing was being produced in Vietnam. And I am not even touching on the chemical pollution of the environment this causes.

[Chik]

I disagree that the response is always a snort of laughter. The Huawei sanctions have had a major impact. Consistency is required to push a change in behavior, but economic sanctions work, especially when in specific response to behavior that needs to change. Now, the vapid public arguments, name calling, and citizen boycotts... yeah, those get a snort of laughter.

I can't get into the specifics, only to say that the UN-mandated forum / platform is directly related to human rights and labour issues, but if the response isn't a snort of laughter, it is almost invariably something equally dismissive. The US are not highly skilled in persuasion and often prefer to resort to bullying. Canada and Australia tend to aggressively align with the US position, which enhances the impression that US are engaging in bullying, which in turn makes their collective approach even more counterproductive and creating opportunities for China and Russia to enhance their influence. The UK have the same tendency in aligning with the US, but until Brexit, they were on a short leash because the EU are represented in the forum as a bloc.

Also, I'm not certain that economic sanctions are universally effective. I tend to think that they can be effective when the target is a small country with limited financial resources. However, when it comes to larger targets like China, I'm not so sure. Countries with resources can simply redirect and redistribute their tactics. Yes, the Huawei sanctions did have an impact. On Huawei. Did it actually change the behaviour of the Chinese government? I'm not so sure. There are a couple of Canadians in China that might have a perspective on this.

With a small country, sanctions may create enough domestic pressure to force a regime change from within, creating real opportunities for behavioural change. With a large country, I think it's a bit more complicated.

[spopepro]

I can't get into the specifics, only to say that the UN-mandated forum / platform is directly related to human rights and labour issues, but if the response isn't a snort of laughter, it is almost invariably something equally dismissive. The US are not highly skilled in persuasion and often prefer to resort to bullying. Canada and Australia tend to aggressively align with the US position, which enhances the impression that US are engaging in bullying, which in turn makes their collective approach even more counterproductive and creating opportunities for China and Russia to enhance their influence. The UK have the same tendency in aligning with the US, but until Brexit, they were on a short leash because the EU are represented in the forum as a bloc.

Also, I'm not certain that economic sanctions are universally effective. I tend to think that they can be effective when the target is a small country with limited financial resources. However, when it comes to larger targets like China, I'm not so sure. Countries with resources can simply redirect and redistribute their tactics. Yes, the Huawei sanctions did have an impact. On Huawei. Did it actually change the behaviour of the Chinese government? I'm not so sure. There are a couple of Canadians in China that might have a perspective on this.

With a small country, sanctions may create enough domestic pressure to force a regime change from within, creating real opportunities for behavioural change. With a large country, I think it's a bit more complicated.

It is obviously not automatic, but Russia is not a small country and the sanctions were, in fact, working well and causing some real movement towards removing Putin’s power base. Well enough to require what should have been a risky campaign to destabilize those leading the sanctions in order to get them lifted. Sadly, despite what some great people have said, I don’t believe there is evidence that the long arc of history bends towards justice but it is worthy to keep trying.