The Vaccine Thread

[Too Tall]

Without further ado, let's get it on/in.

Also, please add to the anonymous survey.

[ZenNMotion]

Having worked for a brief few years as a cog in a pharmaceutical lab, I have a particular perspective on the approval process- mostly I have a sense of what is in many ways a messy process that's not just about the data, and I don't entirely trust it given the urgency, $$$, and politics that are driving it. I applaud the achievement of bringing it (them) to market quickly but I'll remain cautious as to when I'll stand in line, I'm very privileged to be in a place where I can work from home indefinitely (at least the next 12 months), venture out for food shopping at slow hours, enjoy my own cooking, and have an incredible choice of outdoor playgrounds within a couple hours' drive, and have lots of experience entertaining myself in difficult circumstances. Plus, I definitely look better wearing a mask than not. So I'll wait it out for a while, until/unless there's a work or family emergency that compels airline travel and/or hotels. That said, the current trends and numbers freak me out, we're in a much worse place now than we were through the Spring and Summer, mostly because we (the US, mostly, but not only) weren't able to get our collective sh*t together for a couple of months to keep the genie mostly bottled, now we're way beyond that, so a vaccination choice may be dictated by the coming tsunami.

[caleb]

I'm expecting to get it right away.

I haven't heard anything from my employer yet, but I fully expect being vaccinated (or demonstrating antibodies) will be a condition of continued employment pretty quickly.

[Saab2000]

I expect to take it as soon as practical and available to my demographic. Additionally, it will likely be part of my employment situation but since I’m out on a leave of absence it’s a bit moot.

I’m not likely to be in the first wave anyway, so it doesn’t matter.

Vaccine science seems more or less settled so yes, I expect to be on board, and relatively quickly as it becomes available.

Vaccination among airline employees has significant precedent so this isn’t uncharted territory.

[monadnocky]

My logic, at this time:

Risks of perceived permanent disability or death due to COVID > Risks of perceived disability or death due to adverse vaccine reactions

I'll be taking the jab as soon as reasonably possible. Like Zen, I, too, used to be a cog in the pharma machine, and I don't not trust them, nor do I trust them, but I have a basic understanding of how the FDA operates (at least in terms of new drug approvals) and while it's not rock-solid, it's p. good.

[jimcav]

the current testing can account for a 1/10,000 serious adverse event at a high probability level--meaning the testing so far has shown it is safe; and IF there are any serious adverse side effects they will become known only as enough individuals get the vaccine to reveal effects at the 1/100,000 or 1 in a million rate etc. By the time I am eligible, I estimate 50-million Americans will have had the vaccine, and I plan to get it unless something significant occurs in the post-EUA data. EAU = emergency use authorization

[Diablo de Acero]

I suspect it will be available in a generic form by the time it gets to my demographic.

[beeatnik]

What blows my mind is that I defended chemotherapy and conventional cancer treatments in debates/arguments with my most enlightened, progressive and informed friends. Now they all want to be at the front of the line for a vaccine.

I've spent my adult working life on the periphery of Big Pharma on the publishing and content side and I'm on the same page as ZenNMotion.

[ides1056]

make mine a double

[Clean39T]

I'm guessing it'll make its way to me around Q3-2021 if all goes according to plan. I work from home. No pre-existing risk factors. Middle-aged. No kids. No reason for contact beyond grocery shopping and getting/sending packages. I have very little need or reason to take it until a lot has changed in the rest of the world and there's a normal to go getting back to.. I do miss restaurants. And trying on shoes before I buy them. Wouldn't mind getting my teeth cleaned someday. None of that is worth jumping the queue for though when there are others who need it more than me.

[holliscx]

make mine a double

If you're on the receiving end of AstraZeneca's vaccine, better make that a half dose.

No way José here. Supposedly trials are supposed to take 1–2 years when done properly. The Trump administration was the one pushing the accelerator on this emergency vaccine that took 4 months. Trump demanded results by October to precede the election and it was Pfizer that said it will be November. October would've been 3 months for something that's supposed to take 2 years. Billions of dollars in the background with Donny at the helm plus big pharma's track record sorry but nothing passes the smell test for me. I read comments by people with experience in the field saying more time and rigorous testing is required. Common vaccines we take like chickenpox, measles, or Polio took decades to approve. I won't line up for a vaccine that was rushed to approval by someone desperate for the spotlight like DJT. I'm sure there are good people working at Pfizer but overwhelmingly the pharmaceutical industry is driven by money. I've been on the periphery of companies like Pfizer in design firms. I've been on a packaging project to make a drug look pretty when suddenly the shit hits the fan in trials and the drug is yanked. So the comments above from individuals who have worked in big pharma plus immunization experts calling for prolonged testing carry a lot of weight.

[Mark Kelly]

The UK has just announced that it has approved the Pfizer vaccine. Although BoJo is almost as much of a dickhead as Trump it is hard to credit that there would have been as much political interference in this decision.

[Chik]

What makes me VERY uncomfortable is the fact that AstraZeneca sought (and, I believe, received in at least one country -- US?) exemption from liability suits for the product. That sent all the wrong messages to me even if it turns out to be completely unnecessary.

I don't know if Pfizer pursued the same.

[Tom]

I'll hold until the people that need it more than me are taken care of. I'm not terribly concerned about the RNA vaccines side effects, my brother and sister in law are RNA scientists. They think the Moderna one is very promising and are participating in the Pfizer clinical trials. As a lay person (in my case that's French for 'dumbass') I am a little skeptical of the sample size and pace but if the people working in hospitals and grocery stores and such can be set up for free I'll get in line behind them and pay full retail.

[vertical_doug]

What makes me VERY uncomfortable is the fact that AstraZeneca sought (and, I believe, received in at least one country -- US?) exemption from liability suits for the product. That sent all the wrong messages to me even if it turns out to be completely unnecessary.

I don't know if Pfizer pursued the same.

AZN received indemnification in most countries (maybe all) that it struck a supply deal with. You should assume Sanofi, JNJ, Pfizer also struck indemnification agreements as part of supply contracts since it is in the national interest and industry legal teams are on top of this stuff.

It is unfortunate, but considering the craziness of the anti-vaxxers, you could end up with frivolous lawsuits for any ailment in the US.

[Chik]

AZN received indemnification in most countries (maybe all) that it struck a supply deal with. You should assume Sanofi, JNJ, Pfizer also struck indemnification agreements as part of supply contracts since it is in the national interest and industry legal teams are on top of this stuff.

It is unfortunate, but considering the craziness of the anti-vaxxers, you could end up with frivolous lawsuits for any ailment in the US.

I understand and appreciate the rationale, but it doesn't give me any comfort.

For the avoidance of doubt, I intend to get the jab(s) as soon as it is available for my demographic group.

[Clyde]

I am around it daily at work so yep stick me baby. You pay your money you take your chances. I love the African Queen.

[KonaSS]

I'm sure there are good people working at Pfizer but overwhelmingly the pharmaceutical industry is driven by money.

Not to take anything away from the rest of your points, but couldn't you replace the word "pharmaceutical" with ANY other industry?

[htwoopup]

Totally agree with the points about rushing the approval.

But, my daughter is a Type 1 diabetic and I will do anything in the world that I can to protect her.

[davids]

For months I've been saying, "I'll be second in line!" and I stand by that. There are many others who are more at risk than I am. I'm happy to stand aside for them and wait my turn.

This appears to be a spectacular achievement of science and medicine, and while I understand and appreciate that we do not (cannot!) know the long-term ramifications of these vaccines for our health, I am more than happy to balance that against the shorter term shitshow we are living.

As far as suspicions of Big Pharma? Or anti-vax idiocy? Fuck that shit.