Quote Originally Posted by suspectdevice View Post
I'm of the mind that frames should always be as inexpensive as possible. geometry, materials and quality of fabrication are what I want to sell. I don't want to compete with folks who have reputation as bespoke craftsmen or "artists". I want to beat and compete with those who make their stuff in taiwan. For me, building bikes is a cultural and political crusade more than an aestehtic or artistic pursuit. Smash the corporate oinks, drown them in their own bullshit if I can... You can get Spectrum to paint anything... I don't even want paint on my bikes. Just sweat, blood and energy gel.
I've never paid retail for a bike in my life (my first real bike I bought as a bike shop rat, my second I got for free as a half decent jr. racer), and I think that has had a valuable effect on my view of bicycles.
I just want to make ruthless black ano killing machines, put the cheapest possible parts on them, and send them into the field to reap the souls and legs of infidels who don't beleive in my vision of american manufacturing might and no-frills all performance racing and riding machines.

As someone with a liberal-arts degree, I also love all of the super dialed, super loved on bikes out there, but I know deep down I'll never be able to afford one. For the 2 years I wasn't either a fully sponsored rider or the physical embodiment of a bike company, I bought and rode Giant's (happily, fwiw).

There are 3 types of people who buy high-end bikes; Aesthetits, Racers and Wannabee's

I like the first two.
I admire your passion, but just about nothing you wrote makes sense to me. Your economic goals (as best I can makes sense of them) are mutually contradictory.


"frames should always be as inexpensive as possible." OK, so they should reflect the cost of materials and - what - slave labor? Or maybe materials and a living wage? Or maybe materials and a wage commensurate with, say, 30 years of experience? How much do you think a framemaker is entitled to earn? (Who makes this decision - you or the marketplace?)

"I want to beat and compete with those who make their stuff in taiwan." How does this desire jibe with this one: "my vision of american manufacturing might"? You want to beat Taiwan? There's no way you're going to do that and pay your American craftsmen a living wage, let alone a wage that compensates them for their expertise. You're going to have to go one way or the other - cheap bikes made by cheap labor or expensive bikes made by expensive labor.

"I've never paid retail for a bike in my life", so you've got no appreciation for the retail industry. This segment is facing massive pressures now (read the jerk's peices for a cogent discussion of what's going on), but if you ignore the value of a brick-and-mortar shop to create, support and perpetuate the cycling market, you're going to end up either peddling bespoke bikes to a very exclusive demographic or mass-produced off-shore generica to hipster webcrawlers.

Now as far as your aesthetics: "ruthless black ano killing machines", "no-frills all performance racing and riding machines" aesthetic. OK, I get that. And you'll save some production costs by not painting your frames, and even more by building them with 105 or LX rather than DuraAce or XTR. But you're never going to compete with Giant on cost, no matter how compelling your manifesto.

Your company's got a cool image and what looks like some really nice frames. All this righteous anger is just noise, atmo. But then I outgrew my infatuation with the noble outlaw about the time the Clash broke up. I'm guessing you're not going after my demographic, huh?