and why? the de salvo thread got me to thinking: some said that they thought that his base price was too little. why? what influences your perceptions of "quality?" do you go the extra mile to learn what is under the paint? interweb reports? friend's recomendations? you can buy a TIG welded Rock Lobster or a fillet brazed Curtlo for great prices - SUPER low considering each of these builder's pedigrees.........what makes a builders prices "fair" "resonable" "low" or what? just for two wild card examples - what, in your perceptions makes a pegorreti worth more then a de salvo? both TIG steel, both really no frills under the paint, just great TIG bikes {don't get me wrong, i have nothing but utmost respect for all builders i've mentioned in this thread - it's PERCIVED VALUE to the customer and how they see the price tag as "fair" that i'm just wondering about} please discuss......... steve.