Everest Thread

[ABiCi]

This thread got me really interested and so I found an online copy of Into Thin Air and started reading yesterday afternoon. Apart from stopping to eat some spaghetti alla vigliacca for dinner, I read the whole thing in one sitting.

Last night I had some strange/disturbing dreams about people being resigned to their own deaths and woke up with my body feeling absolutely exhausted, every muscle aching. So yeah, probably not the kind of thing to read before bed time.

I've come out of it with incredibly mixed feelings. On the one hand, the whole situation was/is madness - the majority of people on the mountain shouldn't have been there and in their folly they not only killed themselves but also those that were foolish enough to take them up there too.

On the other hand (and this is where I really start to worry)... it would be pretty amazing to climb Everest, wouldn't it? I'm a fit male in my mid-20s, I could do it... Of course, if I did try to the summit I would start training (that is, climbing mountains, not climbing up stairs) a number of years in advance so that I had the technical skills, I would give myself plenty more time than a few weeks at base camp to get acclimatised to altitude, hell I would take a year off just to get physically prepared...

Back to reality, though, and sometimes you just need to accept that though your hypothetically could do something, that is not a sufficient reason to actually do it.

[sonny]

This thread got me really interested and so I found an online copy of Into Thin Air and started reading yesterday afternoon. Apart from stopping to eat some spaghetti alla vigliacca for dinner, I read the whole thing in one sitting.

Last night I had some strange/disturbing dreams about people being resigned to their own deaths and woke up with my body feeling absolutely exhausted, every muscle aching. So yeah, probably not the kind of thing to read before bed time.

I've come out of it with incredibly mixed feelings. On the one hand, the whole situation was/is madness - the majority of people on the mountain shouldn't have been there and in their folly they not only killed themselves but also those that were foolish enough to take them up there too.

On the other hand (and this is where I really start to worry)... it would be pretty amazing to climb Everest, wouldn't it? I'm a fit male in my mid-20s, I could do it... Of course, if I did try to the summit I would start training (that is, climbing mountains, not climbing up stairs) a number of years in advance so that I had the technical skills, I would give myself plenty more time than a few weeks at base camp to get acclimatised to altitude, hell I would take a year off just to get physically prepared...

Back to reality, though, and sometimes you just need to accept that though your hypothetically could do something, that is not a sufficient reason to actually do it.

i see where you are coming from, and yes, it would be cool to walk up and stand upon the highest point on earth, but that being the singular property that draws many to climb it is entirely unhealthy--under the best conditions. there are better views, more committing challenges, and ethical approaches on thousands of peaks dotting this earth. everest is a sick fascination, esp. given its history, for most everyone at this point atmo. bloodsport, not mountaineering

[Matthew Strongin]

There was a reality show on a couple years ago chronicling one of the guide companies and their efforts to get their clients to the top. It was unnerving to see some of the risks they took to meet their goal, the determination of the clients and the disappointment for those who had to give up. I seem to remember one guy making the call to get frostbite on his feet, knowing he'd lose toes, to not give up. I had always wanted to do it, but this show made me realize that I don't have the I must succeed at any cost mentality required (or required for an inexperienced mountain climber).

This thread got me really interested and so I found an online copy of Into Thin Air and started reading yesterday afternoon. Apart from stopping to eat some spaghetti alla vigliacca for dinner, I read the whole thing in one sitting.

Slightly off topic, but if you enjoyed Into Thin Air, you should check out Krakauer's other books. Into the Wild was mentioned earlier in the thread. It's a good read, much better than the movie.

[ABiCi]

i see where you are coming from, and yes, it would be cool to walk up and stand upon the highest point on earth, but that being the singular property that draws many to climb it is entirely unhealthy--under the best conditions. there are better views, more committing challenges, and ethical approaches on thousands of peaks dotting this earth. everest is a sick fascination, esp. given its history, for most everyone at this point atmo.

I don't disagree with any of that. :)

When you see images like this it is clear that while Everest may be the highest mountain you could climb, it is far from the best experience you could have climbing a mountain. Stuck in a slow moving queue of 100 climbers, passing dozens of dead bodies (or worse, dying bodies) as you shuffle along... who cares if it is the highest if that is what you need to do get to the top?

[ABiCi]

Slightly off topic, but if you enjoyed Into Thin Air, you should check out Krakauer's other books. Into the Wild was mentioned earlier in the thread. It's a good read, much better than the movie.

I was working in a cinema around the time the movie came out, and it was probably the only film showing at the time that I didn't actually see myself and I didn't actually put together that the same guy wrote both until I saw it listed in the "other books by this author" page in Into Thin Air. I'll definitely check the book out now.

[sonny]

[...] that though your hypothetically could do something, that is not a sufficient reason to actually do it.

yeah, going up mountains is generally pretty pointless, among other things ;)

i do like to imagine the polynesians on hawaiʻi sitting under their breadfruit tree on the coast looking up at the summer snow on kea and loa. i wonder when the first nut provisioned and hiked up there..

[Matthew Strongin]

I was working in a cinema around the time the movie came out, and it was probably the only film showing at the time that I didn't actually see myself and I didn't actually put together that the same guy wrote both until I saw it listed in the "other books by this author" page in Into Thin Air. I'll definitely check the book out now.

I read it years ago over lunch breaks at work. A coworker walked by my desk one day and started to break down. Turns out she was friends with Christopher McCandless (the protagonist). It's easy to forget the story is non-fiction. Hearing her talk about him before the events of the book made the whole thing pretty intense.

[randonneur]

Those of you who like climbing and also liked Into Thin Air would also do well to read Joe Simpson's climbing classic Touching the Void, which is one of the most terrifying things I've ever read as a climber. I'd been meaning to read it for some time, but finally managed to find the time around 2005 while convalescing after a factor 2 20' lead fall which left me with a compound tib-fib fracture, a broken nose, and a shattered left hand. Those accounts make me well aware that I got off easy. I don't climb much anymore.

I 'get' the Everest thing. Standing on top of a mountain is an amazing feeling. Standing on the tallest mountain around is even better. While I have a lot more respect for someone who's climbed K2 or one of the Gasherbrum peaks (which are arguably much harder than Everest) or even some unnamed tiny peak in their (my) own back yard, I understand why someone would want to 'bag' the tallest thing around. But these people are making decisions which involve large risks, whether they choose to acknowledge them or not. There are some pundits which are trying to shift at least some part of the blame regarding the Canadian woman's death to her bargain basement outfitter. Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.

[AngryScientist]

i would not climb everest the modern, touristy way. it seems cheap, tainted.

i am not a mountaneer, so i say this from inexperience, but with conviction. i feel that if i'm going to do something just for the sake of the challenge, i'm going to go all-in. if i'm going to climb a mountain, i'm putting the ropes in myself, or with trusted climbing partners, close friends, not natives that i paid someone else to pay for. if that means that i would climb smaller mountains, to me that is a bigger accomplishment, it is what it is.

i will not say i rode some epic mountain pass if i used a "supplemental motor", or if someone fitter than i bungee cord assisted me. whats the point?

[vertical_doug]

I've never been a fan of Krakauer. I think the best climbing book ever written is 'Annapurna' by Maurice Herzog. It is the account of the 1950 french expedition which climbed Annapurna becoming the first successful summit of a 8000m peak. The great thing about the book is in 1950 they hardly had maps of the region. The story is about climbing a mountain but is really a great adventure into the unknown.

There is section of the story where they get on a turbo-prop plane with a sikh pilot. 40 years later, I was flying from Delhi north to the Himalaya Garwhals. My friends and I got on a rickety turbo prop plane with a Sikh pilot. We were given cotton balls to stuff in our ears to drown out the noise and hard candy to suck to keep our ears from popping. It was a riot.

Here is my favorite face: It is Mt Tanigawa in Japan. It is only 1977m but tricky. 877 people have died on the mountain.
Something so beautiful can be so deadly.

Attachment 46184

[Bruce Day]

I've been up a fair number of the Class 3 climbable peaks above 12,000 in the Rockies and Sierras, and backpacked some of the 14 'ners . I've led groups up many 14'ners. This Everest scene is beyond my worst thoughts, the way its done and what it has become. It has no appeal for me. I have great respect for good Class 5 climbers, been around many and done some, but its not for me. Combine a treacherous roped climb with unimaginable weather conditions and oxygen deprivation and its beyond rationality.

[Nierman]

I've been up a fair number of the Class 3 climbable peaks above 12,000 in the Rockies and Sierras, and backpacked some of the 14 'ners . I've led groups up many 14'ners. This Everest scene is beyond my worst thoughts, the way its done and what it has become. It has no appeal for me. I have great respect for good Class 5 climbers, been around many and done some, but its not for me. Combine a treacherous roped climb with unimaginable weather conditions and oxygen deprivation and its beyond rationality.

I've been fascinated by hiking some of these mountains recently. Took the wife out for her first fairly easy one (Huron) a couple weeks ago and we're already planning another CO trip next summer. As much as I'm drawn to these peaks by some primordial pull, I have yet to do any Class 3 stuff. Might visit the San Juans and do Uncompahgre then Wetterhorn which is described as an "easy 3", minimal exposure, but reading another climber's account about a recent death on North Maroon makes me fear and respect that which may be beyond my limitation. And seeing crowded peaks makes me think of the group ride. There can be fun and camaraderie in shared successes, but one accidental touch of a wheel and several go down. Not my thing, but I can see the draw.

via 14ers.com

My friend Ed, and I were in the second gulley when this happened. I first heard a high pitched sound I later learned was a sustained female scream. Then we heard the unmistakable sound of a lot of rock falling our way. We were able to duck behind a rock out-cropping and watch as an unbelievable amount of rock came falling by. I was thinking “WTF is going on up there?” The rock kept falling past us for perhaps 30 seconds or more. Some were big. If someone were in their path they would be screwed. We saw a backpack come falling down with the rock. I though “Oh No”. Then we saw the climber fall past us. He was maybe 20 or 30 feet away as he tumbled by. We didn’t see him for long before he disappeared over the ledges we were on. After he passed I said to Ed, “I think we just saw someone die.”

[Scott G.]

To get the Everest effect closer to home, try the following.
Go to the Goodwill, find a 1972 crappy ten speed.
Go to the top of Tuna Canyon, ride down, wasn't that exciting and challenging.
Now take a newbie rider with 3 months experience and do the same thing.
Charge them $1000 to create value in their mind.

[JoB]

On the topic of books, Anatoli Boukreev's book in response to Krakauer's Into Thin Air is very, very good. I enjoyed it immensely.

Into The Wild is terrific as well, I agree.

There was a reality show on a couple years ago chronicling one of the guide companies and their efforts to get their clients to the top. It was unnerving to see some of the risks they took to meet their goal, the determination of the clients and the disappointment for those who had to give up. I seem to remember one guy making the call to get frostbite on his feet, knowing he'd lose toes, to not give up. I had always wanted to do it, but this show made me realize that I don't have the I must succeed at any cost mentality required (or required for an inexperienced mountain climber).



Slightly off topic, but if you enjoyed Into Thin Air, you should check out Krakauer's other books. Into the Wild was mentioned earlier in the thread. It's a good read, much better than the movie.

[Flying Pigeon]

Another analogy: You book a package trip for $100-200k to the Serengeti where you get jammed into a bus full of with Seattle lawyers and Wall Street bankers. Every tree has an adult male lion chained to it, and the bus stops so you each get to shoot one out the window. There are so many of these buses they crash into each other more every year.

Meanwhile once in a while a crazy Russian or Pole is seen running straight at a den of wild lions with nothing but a pocket knife!

ROAR!!

[Bruce Day]

Nierman:

The Maroons are known for rotten rock. There are many ways to die in the mountains. I'm a Boy Scout leader and I take safety very seriously. I led one scramble in CO and had to be firm in not letting the boys take one route. On the way back down, a teenager from an unsupervised group who had drunk only a couple beers was killed where I told our boys not to go, amid much grumbling. On the wonderful side, climbing in the mountains can be a challenging and enlightening experience . Thousands of people do it safely every year. Accidents are extremely rare, but hey, risks are fun, right.......?

[Ben]

I can't recommend Epic: Stories of Survival from the World's Highest Peaks: Clint Willis: 9781560251545: Amazon.com: Books highly enough. It contains excerpts from a number of the books mentioned here, but manages to be more than the sum of its parts. "Minus 148 Degrees: The Winter Ascent of Mt. McKinley" is the most harrowing thing I've ever read. Somebody at Rapha should read this before they use the word "epic" again.

[rowdyhillrambler]

I used to do alot of backpacking/climbing when i was in college... But, it was mostly just to wrangle some tail from the local co-eds. I am embarrassed to admit that. Otherwise, i just cant get into it.

[professerr]

I wonder how much of the allure of Everest is the risk of itself. I've climbed with people, both newbies and very experienced, for whom the risk itself is a very large part of the draw. They don't have a death wish or anything, but they genuinely derive pleasure from the risk. I'm just not made that way, though I find people who are made that way fascinating and almost alien -- it is one thing to have different taste from me in terms of ice cream, tubulars v clinchers, etc. It is quite another to have different taste from me in terms of life and death situations. For me the risk is the unpleasant (sometimes very) part that I have to put up with to experience and accomplish a beautiful thing.

[critpix]

There was a reality show on a couple years ago chronicling one of the guide companies and their efforts to get their clients to the top. It was unnerving to see some of the risks they took to meet their goal, the determination of the clients and the disappointment for those who had to give up. I seem to remember one guy making the call to get frostbite on his feet, knowing he'd lose toes, to not give up. I had always wanted to do it, but this show made me realize that I don't have the I must succeed at any cost mentality required (or required for an inexperienced mountain climber).

If its the same Discovery channel show I'm thinking of, the outfit they followed was HIMEX, which withdrew their expeditions this year.