Tooling question: Milling Machine vise SWIVEL BASE (90 or 360?)

[illcomm33]

Hello,
Hope everyone is well!
A couple basic & quick questions for those of you using milling machines.

1) For your mill vise do you have a swivel base?
I recently purchased my first mill (1953 Nichols) which came with an old Brown and Sharpe 5" vise.
The vise doesn't have a swivel base and I have been encouraged to get one.

If you have a swivel base do you have and use the 360 graduated degrees? The only base I can find for that older vise only has graduated degrees up to 90. Is this even worth looking into?

I use BikeCad Pro (recently purchased) which can tell me the specific angles of tube junctions.

2) Is it as simple as taking the Bikecad angle (ex. downtube/headtube angle) for a given junction and adjusting the vise to that specific angle?

Sorry for the basic mill/setup questions but besides using a handfile with Nova miter templates it is all new to me. :)

Thanks in advance for any guidance/suggestions you have.

Travis

[Andrew R Stewart]

Others with real mill experience can give far better answers but I'll say that in an ideal world, Tes. Adjust the vice to the indicated angles and cut away. But in the real world the resulting miter angle might not be spot on. At the very least you should cut some practice pieces to confirm or develop a correction factor. Things can drift, the cut can get more bite on one side of the miter VS the other side, the vice might not be true. the tube might not be square in the jaws. Do you have a veiner protractor? When I moved on from making paper drawings to fit the tube to the veiner protractor was the first piece of equipment I got. Still have it and use it frequently many years later. Remember, one measurement is worth a thousand assumptions. Andy.

[illcomm33]

Andy,
Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. Great tips on the practice cuts to develop a strategy as well as variables to watch out for! I also planned on still using my paper miter templates to mark the tube (further away than the desired length) and see how close the angle is.

I don't have a veiner protractor at this time so I will look into one of them for sure.

Also, just in case in helps, I wanted to point out that the mill is a horizontal mill since I failed to mention that in the original post.

Thanks all.

[Rody]

Travis,

If you mill has sufficient vertical axis space, I would instead suggest a rotary table instead of the swivel base. A rotary table will provide a solid, accurate foundation for your work, with much more adaptability for other processes. It costs a bit more money up front, but will pay for it's self long term.

As for making your miters, the accuracy of cutting a miter to a blueprint spec depends wholy on your fixture's abilty to replicate your intended design. My fixture is my 3D blueprint, placing all the critical points where they must be relative to each other. I will use a starting angle from my design for my miter, check the fit of the joint in the fixture, then adjust for a perfect fit. You will find that paper templates, while helpful for hand filing, slow the process when using machinary.

Remember, the strength of moving to machinary is to provide accurate, repeatable cuts for production style work. Paper templates and hand files can be as fast, and more prudent, unless the investment in equipment yields an economic, functional, or fun factor for you.

rody

[afwalker]

Travis,
I use a mitutoyo vernier protractor based on Andrew's recommendation and it's a very useful tool. Here's one on ebay: Mitutoyo 187 904 Bevel Protractor D1127 1 | eBay
I use a Nichols for lots of cuts on a rotary table based tube mitering jig I made, after a few measurements I rely on the dial in the rotary table as it's accurate.
9317648382_81011fe759_m.jpg I have a slotting set up using an angle plate on my flickr page Flickr: afwalker's Photostream
With such a useful tool like the Nichols, you'll find you will be needing all sorts of great tools. I do really like that self-centering vise, big time saver.
Woodstock D4064 Precision Self Centering Vise - Amazon.com
Don's Anvil seatstay jig comes with a 90 deg Wilton vise, and the scale is good, but I double check with the protractor.
cheers
andy walker

[illcomm33]

Rody/Andy,

As always thanks a ton for the guidance and suggestions. I really appreciate the detailed replies with pictures and all!
I never heard of/considered a rotary table but have added it, along with that Mitutoyo protractor, to my list of tooling I need to purchase.

Still working on some cash flow issues but at least I have a good understanding of what I need to look for. Just wanted to take the time and say thank you!

Travis

[Meriwether]

There are a few tools I never take a picture of. This is one of them.

I was afraid you were going to say that....

I'd be interested if you ever do produce such a tool/fixture. Filing to fit those pieces is unfun.

[afwalker]

9012312094_85a53c8978_m.jpg
These helps my centering a lot for this main tube mitering, Carl at Metal Guru « Lessons in bicycle manufacturing inspired the design and Todd at FARR Frameworks made the custom dead center that fits into the rotary table. When all three dead centers are lined up, you can rotate 90 deg and they all stay on center:)
I have used it to make segmented forks Whit, I weld the top piece to the steerer first, then miter for the fork leg.
cheers
andy walker

[EricKeller]

Andy,
Where did you get those vise jaws?

[afwalker]

Eric,
MAGNETIC 'V' BLOCK UNIVERSAL VISE JAWS
Aren't those sweet? Whit put me on to those, very useful.
That vice is self centering and that really is a big help also.
Woodstock D4064 Precision Self Centering Vise - Amazon.com
the price seems to go up and down, I thought it was $149 a while ago.
cheers
andy walker