Learn Me On Down Jackets

[drietz]

Hey all, wasn't sure to post this here or in the Art of Wardrobe, so I figured that since it's more of a utilitarian question I'd throw it up here. So here it goes...

It's official. I received my acceptance letter from Dartmouth (and a little more importantly, my notice of financial aid fulfillment) so I will theoretically be spending the next 4 years in New Hampshire.

I'm a California boy, so the whole "winter" thing isn't too familiar to me. Was thinking about picking up a down jacket to keep me nice and toasty.

Besides cycling, I also free climb, so I was thinking something along the lines of a sturdy, mid to light weight jacket that'll keep me warm without making me look like the Michelin man.

Additionally, I started leaning towards synthetic down because of warmth in the wet and because natural down jackets seem rather delicate?

Oh, and I'm hoping to avoid shelling out Patagucci-esque prices. Suggestions?

Cheers!

[robin3mj]

Nau.com

Find a coupon or buy on sale. I have a down jacket and two of their blazers that I never take off.
Toes the line between city/outdoors and the cut is nice for a cyclist.

Ps. Mime is real goose down and not delicate in the least.

[Plum]

Actual down jackets are too warm for me to wear while doing anything under a very leisurely activity. Even at zero, they're too warm to ride in or ski in. Maybe a very lightweight one, but then you're not really getting the benefits of a down jacket, the super warmth.

Get a soft shell fleece for activities and a down jacket for walking to class and standing around, at least IMHO.

Plum

[brucew]

Actual down jackets are too warm for me to wear while doing anything under a very leisurely activity. Even at zero, they're too warm to ride in or ski in. Maybe a very lightweight one, but then you're not really getting the benefits of a down jacket, the super warmth.

Get a soft shell fleece for activities and a down jacket for walking to class and standing around, at least IMHO.

Plum

This is spot on.

If you're active, you don't need down.

Once I started cycling through the winter, ALL of my "warm" coats have stayed in the closet. When it's really cold (and I'm walking, not cycling) I'll wear a Gore-Tex rain jacket over a fleece.

You'll need the down if you're going to be outside, standing around doing nothing. I can imagine there may be some social activities where you'd need it. But any sort of physical activity and they're far too warm.

[72gmc]

Congratulations. And buy good stuff when you buy. Gulping once over the price beats fuming twice when you have to replace something cheap. Patagonia's slim fit jackets are good stuff and repel beer as well or better than anything else.

[Joel Benjamin L]

A word of advice: Dartmouth has wonderful intellectual and professional resources, but it also has a very vibrant Greek culture of excess. It is probably not possible to take advantage of both at once.

[xjoex]

Congratulations. And buy good stuff when you buy. Gulping once over the price beats fuming twice when you have to replace something cheap. Patagonia's slim fit jackets are good stuff and repel beer as well or better than anything else.

Truer words never spoken, spend your money once not twice.

-Joe

[j44ke]

Down is rated by fill power. The number corresponds to the volume filled by a gram (usually) of feathers. The higher the loft of the feathers the greater the fill power and the higher the insulating ability by weight. So in short, you need less 700 fill power down to fill the same volume as 600 fill power down. That doesn't mean that higher fill power is warmer, just that you need less of it in a jacket to achieve the same insulating abilities as a lower fill power down.

Marmot has always had a very good reputation for the quality of their down. I don't think that has changed. I have a Marmot down jacket that has 700 fill power down in it and it works on the very coldest days in NYC. I have also had the jacket for about 8 years, so fragility has not been an issue.

In fact, I think that fragility is not something I actually attach to down jackets as a quality. For their weight, they are remarkably durable, and most downs being used today can actually be laundered in a washing machine and dried in the dryer using proper settings. The trick with drying is to throw in a couple brand new tennis balls or racket balls when you put the jacket in the dryer. The reputation may come more from what the jacket is made out of (the nylon or equivalent) than the down itself.

You also want to fit a down jacket so that there is as little dead space between you and the jacket. A jacket that is too big requires you to heat the dead space between you and the jacket and that will make it harder to stay warm.

Patagonia also makes some superlative down jackets in a variety of weights. Patagonia's philosophy has always been towards the use of layers, and adding a down layer to their soft shells or capilene fleece layers is great way to balance insulation if you are going to be active. Patagonia's lightweight down jackets ball up into something about the size a grapefruit and a half. That makes putting them on and taking them off while moving pretty easily done.

I avoid synthetics. I haven't found one that does the job that down does. Down is like wool. Lots of attempts on improvement but none of them have been replacements.

[PJN]

Go to college someplace it is warm. Winter sucks and it isn't worth it.

Problem solved.

[jonnycomelately]

Congrats on Dartmouth. That's quite an achievement.

Having spent time in New England during college, I can tell you you're going to need at least one full-on seriously warm coat for walking around in winter. I came to New England from the South for college, and was surprised at (1) how damn COLD it is in the winter; and (2) how much more formal things are there than what I had grown up with. Hanover is even colder than Boston, where I was. I ended up buying a heavy wool, full-length overcoat and getting more use out of it than any other coat I had. Expensive, but it is something you'll use for years after graduation, depending on where you go. Think of it as an investment. Best bet for something like this would probably be to get it when you go there in the fall (or get your parents to buy it for you as a dropping-their-baby-off-at-college gift). They probably have a better selection in New Hampshire than you do in California, and that way you won't have to pack the bulky thing in your cross-country luggage.

For athletic activities, something lighter is better, of course. The other entries in this thread have good feedback on down. I agree that real down is better than synthetics. You might also consider wool. I have had really good luck with Ibex wool stuff, and that's local to where's you'll be. Here's a link to their website: Ibex Outdoor Clothing: Merino Wool Clothing, Wool Cycling Apparel, Organic Cotton Clothing, Wool Underwear and Baselayers

Good luck!

[Derek Raymond]

I'm from NH and think layering is more important than just a warm coat.

For jackets: Ibex is a good recommend, Swrve makes nice jackets, people like mountain hardware a lot and of course l.l. Bean, filson, etc. There are many more good companies that others here will recommend. With anything you get, make sure it comes with a hood.

Consider flannel. Pendleton's from the thrift are great and purposeful. Beans and Eddie Bauer have great selections for warm button downs. If that's not your style, maybe sweaters.

Wool or polyester base layers / undershirts + wool socks are bliss. Wool stinks less, polyester is stronger. blends are cool.

Mittens are warmer than gloves, hats should cover your ears. I know that's more than just jackets, but that's where I'd start for it all.

[vertical_doug]

Attachment 50374

New England Approved.

[professerr]

Notsure where you are in Northern Cal, but if you can, go to the Patagonia outlet in Santa Cruz. Everything is much cheaper, sometimes crazy cheap. Get some of their winter stuff. Down, synthetic, fleece -- doesn't really matter if you're just using it for non-sports stuff. Personally, I don't like down for anything other than climbing or backpacking trips where the weight savings is worth the other drawbacks -- can't launder easily, sucks when wet, pricey. Wool is also excellent too -- I used my warm long heavy wool overcoat all the time.

And don't forget you'll need boots. Not cowboy boots like my California girlfriend bought for school in the Northeast. Warm boots. Insulated.

[Philster]

Don't know anything about down but would really like to congratulate you on your acceptance. When I went to school in up-state NY, we used beer to stay warm. It may not have actually kept me warm but at least it kept me from remembering what coat I was wearing.

[vertical_doug]

Congratulations on acceptance at Dartmouth. Honestly, I wouldn't do anything until you get out in Hanover. You have to ship everything from California to Dartmouth. There is a limited amount you can bring on the flight. It's a pain in the ass. I don't think you are planning on driving cross country are you?

Patagonia, Backcountry.com , REI , IBEX and other online vendors all have web specials going year round. Once you are settled, figure out what you need and get it then. It will be more timely, less wasteful.

[randonneur]

Notsure where you are in Northern Cal, but if you can, go to the Patagonia outlet in Santa Cruz. Everything is much cheaper, sometimes crazy cheap...

Great idea! There's a TNF outlet in Berkeley too. My wife and I scored some really nice jackets there while we were doing some cross border shopping.

My view on jackets is 'more is better'. I don't know if it's because of the climate we have here, but i really think that you can never have too many jackets. Lots of various weights for layering: fleeces, softshells, shells, hoodies, puffies, vests - get all of 'em. Mix'n'match according to your mood.

I will say this about really cold weather jackets - a little bit of length is a good thing, and internal powder cuffs are the cat's meow for keeping out drafts.

[sparky33]

Go Big Green!

Get an inexpensive down coat, like a $90 LLBean down parka, it will keep you warm. You won't feel too bad when it gets lost or ruined in a frat party coat pile.

Do some riding on the Vermont side of the river.

Enjoy it. In the words of Seuss:
Shout loud, “I am lucky
to be what I am!
Thank goodness I’m not
just a clam or a ham
Or a dusty old jar of
sour gooseberry jam!
I am what I am! That’s a
great thing to be!

[kyle]

Northeast is beautiful.

Polypropylene thermal tops are not to be ignored. They are cheap and can be found through military discount shops.

[xjoex]

This is not coat related, so ignore if you want.

I like the cut of your jib so I'll let you in on the most valuable piece of college advice I can give.

As soon as you move in, look for a job in the computer lab. You will get paid to be in "study hall" more or less. You'll never lose the job and it'll make you write your papers/etc while you are there.

-Joe

[dang]

Go Big Green!

Get an inexpensive down coat, like a $90 LLBean down parka, it will keep you warm. You won't feel too bad when it gets lost or ruined in a frat party coat pile.

Do some riding on the Vermont side of the river.

Enjoy it. In the words of Seuss:
Shout loud, “I am lucky
to be what I am!
Thank goodness I’m not
just a clam or a ham
Or a dusty old jar of
sour gooseberry jam!
I am what I am! That’s a
great thing to be!

Awesome. It was a fine day when they named the med school after the good "doctor" (good, and generous too I reckon).