BRAZING: alloys & fluxes.

[steve garro]

been getting lots of questions so i figured that i'd just put stuff up here for all. Garro. these pics: Aufhauser 680 brass-nickle, super milky blue flux + gasfluxer on Med/Lo, victor FW100 + #1 tip. done fast.

[WadePatton]

thanks fer the snapshot.

and "fast" is the most common thing i hear from good welders-any material.

how goes it w/o the gasfluxer?

[steve garro]

a couple more, please add your all's results too, be they fillet pro & stainless or coathanger & Ti. !! H2o boss = A56T + standard white flux. Stainless dropouts = A45 + standard white flux type "U". - Garro.

[Dave Porter]

Steve,
EASY PEEZEY clean up You're the man!
DP

[steve garro]

Steve,
EASY PEEZEY clean up You're the man!
DP

work smarter, not harder. that's what i'm about. that's why i want this thread to go, so we can all get a little closer to that. how about showing us some Silver/Stainless combos, Dave? - Garro.

[steve garro]

i get asked about this one allot. .058" sleeve x .6mm ST. Aufhauser A56T rod x Gasflux type "U" flux. no cleanup, move on. - Garro.

[steve garro]

Time to dig this thread up. here are more results. 45% silver + black flux. minimal finishing. Please contribute your results with minimal finishing or raw. If you want me to test alloys & post results then send them to me & I will. - Garro.

[Dave Porter]

Steve,
Just to be clear, the Black is the so called Stainless-Light that you are referring to.. yes?
dave

[steve garro]

Steve,
Just to be clear, the Black is the so called Stainless-Light that you are referring to.. yes?
dave

Nope. it's gasflux type "H" - Garro.

[Eric Estlund]

I could have sworn I posted these, but on reviewing the thread I guess not.

Comparison photos of Gasflux and Cycle Design CO4, LFB and brass fluxes:

Top tube :CO4 w/ GF Blue
Down Tube: Brazage LFB w/ Light Flux


Top Tube: Brazage LFB w/ Light Flux
Down Tube: CO4 w/ GF Blue


Top and Down tubes with Brazage Light Flux and CO4 rod


And a few of my standard Co4/ GF blue/ gas fluxer combo:

[steve garro]

I could have sworn I posted these, but on reviewing the thread I guess not.

and a few of my standard Co4/ GF blue/ gas fluxer combo:

looks kinda conclusive. what are your thoughts? I think we are running the same mix. here: Auf. 680, gasflux blue, gasfluxer med/lo & thousands of brazes under my belt. - Garro.

[edoz]

One thing I've noticed since I got a batch of the Cycle Design LFB rod and flux is that it wets out on the edges a bit better, and I don't have as much filing to do to get a smooth transition from tube to fillet. It might just be more skill on my part, but it pretty much started when I got Freddy's LFB. Of course, noob friendly isn't really important to Eric or Steve;)

[pruckelshaus]

Here's a really dumb question, and it may go way beyond the scope of this thread. I'm beginning my second frame. My first was lugged steel, silver brazed with 56% safety-silv. It was easy enough to work with, but the cost of the silver was (to me) insanely high -- well over $100 of silver in a single frame.

How different is brass to work with? I understand that the wet temp is a lot higher, and that the close tolerances that are required for silver would be impossible to get brass to really flow. But, really, is it any more difficult to work with once you get the metal hot enough? My mentor (Peter Dreesens) is a silver for lugged frames guy, so convincing him that I want to try brass might be a bit tough...

Thanks,

Pete

[Freddy]

Here's a really dumb question, and it may go way beyond the scope of this thread. I'm beginning my second frame. My first was lugged steel, silver brazed with 56% safety-silv. It was easy enough to work with, but the cost of the silver was (to me) insanely high -- well over $100 of silver in a single frame.

How different is brass to work with? I understand that the wet temp is a lot higher, and that the close tolerances that are required for silver would be impossible to get brass to really flow. But, really, is it any more difficult to work with once you get the metal hot enough? My mentor (Peter Dreesens) is a silver for lugged frames guy, so convincing him that I want to try brass might be a bit tough...

Thanks,

Pete

Right? so I will be short and to the point, silver lugged building and bronze lugged building are apples and oranges, if you want to change to bronze it will require increasing clearances and so forth, I find it takes longer to prepare and finish although in my day I made a ton of bronze brazed frames before slowly changing to silver.
At the risk of making Brother Steve mad there is now the" System 48" which is a little less money, but I stand firm on the cost of using silver is worth it for ease of construction and the bikes tend to last very well.

If you get down this way before you star your next build, I will be happy to walk you through sucking bronze though some lugs.
Good luck, speed and quality cost money, damn shame but true.

[steve garro]

At the risk of making Brother Steve mad there is now the" System 48" which is a little less money, but I stand firm on the cost of using silver is worth it for ease of construction and the bikes tend to last very well.

I'm not mad, that's not how I am. it's just that i started this thread hoping to give visuals as to what results people are getting & every time someone posts it turns into a cycle design ad. c'mon, guys. let your builders show the results. everything else is just 1's & 0's. - Garro.

[Freddy]

I'm not mad, that's not how I am. it's just that i started this thread hoping to give visuals as to what results people are getting & every time someone posts it turns into a cycle design ad. c'mon, guys. let your builders show the results. everything else is just 1's & 0's. - Garro.

I am now a private party, feels good, now I can keep playing with alloys and methods, so let's hope they send lots of pics and think out of the box !
I hope the CDG keeps on keeping on but I remain on my quest for answers and results.

I hope you don't think I am a "Piss ant" but I am kinda stoked about all the results ! This is great !

Fredddy

[steve garro]

I hope the CDG keeps on keeping on

yeah, it would be great if they could actually have the product ready to ship when they charge you for it instead of telling you it is & then you don't see anything for six months and then finally you get a big bag with "scraps" written on it consisting of mixed unlabeled alloys in 4-6" lengths, or charged for regs which never show up for months while you are dead in the water & end up buying others, only to have some finally show up which are USED, and then months later others show up from a third party that I could have bought from myself & not been upcharged for. I hope that it not only "keeps on" but that it actually becomes a reliable buisness entity. - Garro.

[steve garro]

Can we please keep this thread sales pitch free? Let the products sell themselves. If you have an alloy, well then MELT SOME AND POST YOUR RESULTS. simple enough, huh? Thanks! - Garro.

[Freddy]

Can we please keep this thread sales pitch free? Let the products sell themselves. If you have an alloy, well then MELT SOME AND POST YOUR RESULTS. simple enough, huh? Thanks! - Garro.

Hey Steve,
Now that I have retired from any sales I tend to agree, in fact I brought up the issue of the fine line of explaining the results of the R&D and tossing in a sales pitch.
Since providing products for use offers no noticable profit and is mostly a service I agree that results are much more of a benefit to inquiring builders.

I see in the posts that a comment was made about price and availability and now that resulted in an answer.

FYI I made the model of exploring products many years ago and I know exactly who makes what and where, if we can just keep the guys out of the trap of buying inferior products from local welding supply sources and on the net, that is a bonus.

All of the products from Gas Flux exceed LWS offerings in most venues as do the CDG ones.

The gross money volumn of supply sales to builders is a joke, people that engage to help to supply have to do it for love of the craft in the interest of being a help.

You can't blame some of the reports to be enthused when the builder finds these products useful.

I report with prudence to explain what changes are present without going into endless mechanical details.

In the industry of products such as wire and rod there is an ungoing trend to remove lead and if this runs true to past experience then I got ahead of it by doing so.

So that said, keep those pictures coming and I hope they ask questions and even complian - that is how progress can be made.

We are all very lucky to have the history of all the hard work from Hank and Monika to keep supplies coming in spite of hard times over the years.
The creed stems from caring and sharing, those elements are the driving energy within all of the vendors I know that focus on bicycle frame products.

You can be assured that the products do sell themselves, the quality levels of common options are very dismal.

Although a visual inspection of any joint falls quite short of determining it's integrity it still helps set a base line so I hope the pictures keep coming>>> Let'S Ride !

[Dornbox]

Steve,

I use 56 with anything stainless because "that's what I was told". What are the befits you find in using 45 and is there a situation where you feel one is a better choice than the other? Gorgeous work by the way! -Chris