The Vaccine Thread

[bigbill]

In other news, allowing workers who are fully vaccinated plus two weeks to not wear a mask results in angst among those who refuse the vaccine. Who would have thought.... We've had workers shouting at each other, yelling at management, threatening to quit, and overall being a pain in the ass because they can't remove their mask. OSHA still holds corporations accountable for spreads at work. A waiver releasing the company is not allowed by law. CDC says, 1) social distancing, 2) engineered controls, 3) masks, or 4) vaccination. The first two aren't practical in an industrial manufacturing environment so that leaves masks or vaccines. One or the other. We're having another shot clinic at work next week, I bet the turnout is higher.

[Saab2000]

In other news, allowing workers who are fully vaccinated plus two weeks to not wear a mask results in angst among those who refuse the vaccine. Who would have thought.... We've had workers shouting at each other, yelling at management, threatening to quit, and overall being a pain in the ass because they can't remove their mask. OSHA still holds corporations accountable for spreads at work. A waiver releasing the company is not allowed by law. CDC says, 1) social distancing, 2) engineered controls, 3) masks, or 4) vaccination. The first two aren't practical in an industrial manufacturing environment so that leaves masks or vaccines. One or the other. We're having another shot clinic at work next week, I bet the turnout is higher.

This is a very clear explanation. I assume you are similarly clear to the employees. This isn’t a difficult to understand issue. Why the resistance to common sense?

I’d be curious if you’ve had any reasonable or productive conversations with vaccine-resistant employees.

[AngryScientist]

what's your guestimate of the spread @bigbill ? % vax'd vs not?

this is great real world policy. it allows the anti-vaxers an avenue to save face and get the shot. "i would have never gotten it but bill said i cant take my mask off until i did"

keep up the good work bill. i'm sure it must be frustrating as hell.

[SlowPokePete]

Why the resistance to common sense?

Herein lies the question to which there really is no answer.

SPP

[Saab2000]

Herein lies the question to which there really is no answer.

SPP

I don’t even mean in the larger question of vaccine hesitancy, which I’m not defending. But it sounds like this shop has rules that accommodate both groups, vaccinated or not. If you’re in the unvaccinated group a mask mandate applies. That’s a simple policy to understand and follow in exchange for a paycheck.

[beeatnik]

I don’t even mean in the larger question of vaccine hesitancy, which I’m not defending. But it sounds like this shop has rules that accommodate both groups, vaccinated or not. If you’re in the unvaccinated group a mask mandate applies. That’s a simple policy to understand and follow in exchange for a paycheck.

Natural immunity, maybe? Especially in AZ where infection rates were apocalyptic.

https://covid19dashboardgt.shinyapps...immunitylevel/

Arizona (ascertainment bias 4)
Population level immunity: 71%
Infected: 48%
Vaccinated (at least one dose): 46%


Conversely:

Hawaii
Population level immunity: 70%
Infected: 10%
Vaccinated (at least one dose): 66%

[colker]

Why not take the vaccine? ?? Vaccines erradicated severe illness and pandemics like yellow fever and small pox. Seems everyone forgot the pain of those. Vaccines made our life healthier and secure.

[beeatnik]

Why not take the vaccine? ?? Vaccines erradicated severe illness and pandemics like yellow fever and small pox. Seems everyone forgot the pain of those. Vaccines made our life healthier and secure.

I just got back from the SP Farmers Market and SP is one of the most compliant communities in America. It looked and felt like 2019 (hot food and no social distancing!!!!). So thank you vaccines regardless of your rare clotting issues and 200x myocarditis baseline rate in 16-17 boys, thank you for allowing me to enjoy a nice Thursday evening.

Now don't get me talking about the risk of stroke from chiropractic manipulation in younger populations. Vertebral artery dissection struck down a good friend in the prime of her life.

https://healthblog.uofmhealth.org/we...oke-whats-risk

It's a "rare" thing.

[bigbill]

This is a very clear explanation. I assume you are similarly clear to the employees. This isn’t a difficult to understand issue. Why the resistance to common sense?

I’d be curious if you’ve had any reasonable or productive conversations with vaccine-resistant employees.

This part of the state is full of off-gridders who distrust the government. Our employee base has many people who believe that getting the vaccine is giving up their rights. I also have many folks who believe what they heard such as: vaccines are magnetic, swells up your heart, make you sterile, contains an RFID tag, and all kinds of rumors about previously positive folks and vaccines. About half my mechanics had Covid, a few have been vaccinated, but a few refuse the vaccine because they have the antibodies. I have a computer set up so we can read the CDC guidance together to dispel rumors. I do my best to counter rumors with facts.

[bigbill]

what's your guestimate of the spread @bigbill ? % vax'd vs not?

this is great real world policy. it allows the anti-vaxers an avenue to save face and get the shot. "i would have never gotten it but bill said i cant take my mask off until i did"

keep up the good work bill. i'm sure it must be frustrating as hell.

I fear the next strain of Covid will shut us down. I'm in Mohave County which is largely responsible for the state of Arizona trending up. The younger folks are getting sick because they refuse to get vaccinated. The impact to the older folks has been dropping dramatically because of vaccinations. Someone my age or older remembers the oral polio vaccine and smallpox shots in school. The other reality is that many of the older population with health issues died last year. Now we have these young people who feel invincible going into bars and restaurants with no masks or vaccines. The next strain will infect them, and if it's deadly enough, it could cause widespread death and hospitalization in our primary workforce.

The practical side of me wants to grab these folks and explain the risks to their health and the risk to our economy if we have another shutdown because they were too stupid to make a good decision.

[bigbill]

Today was a special day for me. During the pandemic, I completed my MA in American History. Today was my virtual graduation and we did it at the Grand Canyon with a cutout of Theodore Roosevelt. We stayed at the Cameron Trading Post Hotel about 30 minutes from the east entrance to GCNP. The east entrance was closed for the pandemic until a few months ago. The reason is the Navajo Reservation that borders the NP. The Navajo were hit very hard because of their culture of having gatherings and multiple generations living under the same roof. The Navajo run the trading post which was founded in 1916. The Nation is still requiring masks, regardless of vaccinations. There are guards outside the entrance to the trading post verifying folks are wearing their masks and sanitize their hands before entering. Makes sense to me, they make their living on tourism, folks from all over the country/world. I saw one man arguing with a guard about not wanting to wear a mask. He eventually gave up and left after the guard (a very scary-looking Navajo) just glared at him in silence.

If businesses and other establishments want me to wear a mask, I'll wear a mask.

[darkmother]

I got my 2nd shot (Moderna this time, AZ for shot #1 ) on Thursday morning. I had a slight fever and general malaise for some of Friday, but very mild.

I'll go for a long ride in the rain today to celebrate.

[jimcav]

Today was a special day for me. During the pandemic, I completed my MA in American History. Today was my virtual graduation and we did it at the Grand Canyon with a cutout of Theodore Roosevelt. We stayed at the Cameron Trading Post Hotel about 30 minutes from the east entrance to GCNP. The east entrance was closed for the pandemic until a few months ago. The reason is the Navajo Reservation that borders the NP. The Navajo were hit very hard because of their culture of having gatherings and multiple generations living under the same roof. The Navajo run the trading post which was founded in 1916. The Nation is still requiring masks, regardless of vaccinations. There are guards outside the entrance to the trading post verifying folks are wearing their masks and sanitize their hands before entering. Makes sense to me, they make their living on tourism, folks from all over the country/world. I saw one man arguing with a guard about not wanting to wear a mask. He eventually gave up and left after the guard (a very scary-looking Navajo) just glared at him in silence.

If businesses and other establishments want me to wear a mask, I'll wear a mask.

congrats on the MA, and also for just being reasonable in being part of what makes a community safer and healthier

[Chik]

Yes very lucky, but it took concerns with AZ causing blood clots and a further outbreak and lockdown for the Pfizer vaccine to be made freely available, or at least slightly more freely available (at least until stocks have run low). One wonders why the vaccines were sitting around not being used in the first instance. Still, Oz's vaccine roll out has been dismal and I suspect - latest outbreak in Sydney notwithstanding - that we won't get the bulk of the population vaccinated until much later this year when additional stocks of Pfizer hit our shores.

Even when Comirnaty is kept in cryostorage, the shelf life is only 6 months, so I wonder if they were administering to it only to a narrowly defined cohort, such as prime ministers wanting to go on a pub crawl, until they decided to give it to the wider population. AZ's Covishield has a massive cost advantage, as well as easier storage requirements, so I can see how they wanted to buy more Covishield than the mRNA alternatives.

My daughter recently got invited to get the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) one. She declined because of the blood clot risk and got her first Comirnaty dose today. Belgium's inoculation programme is gaining speed, which pleases me very much.

[XR2]

So was he actually vaccinated? The vaccines are supposed to prevent transmission as well as infection. Or did he travel too soon after vaccination, before his immunities were at full strength?

Yeah he had the Moderna. It's not absolute that it prevents infection. It's likely you'll be immune however you can get it. if you do the symptoms will be less severe keeping you from hospitalization and death. That is the goal. He recovered in a few days and said he felt very poor but breathing issues were minor.

[bigbill]

I fear the next strain of Covid will shut us down. I'm in Mohave County which is largely responsible for the state of Arizona trending up. The younger folks are getting sick because they refuse to get vaccinated. The impact to the older folks has been dropping dramatically because of vaccinations. Someone my age or older remembers the oral polio vaccine and smallpox shots in school. The other reality is that many of the older population with health issues died last year. Now we have these young people who feel invincible going into bars and restaurants with no masks or vaccines. The next strain will infect them, and if it's deadly enough, it could cause widespread death and hospitalization in our primary workforce.

The practical side of me wants to grab these folks and explain the risks to their health and the risk to our economy if we have another shutdown because they were too stupid to make a good decision.

Replying to my own post. It's working, more folks at work are getting vaccinated. The guys who work in my department are pretty open about getting their shots, most have already had their first Moderna. The shot clinic at work this Friday will have J&J and Moderna. I've done my best to be a real bastard about enforcing the wearing of masks by our unvaccinated workers. Maybe they'll do it just to get me off their backs.

[Too Tall]

Replying to my own post. It's working, more folks at work are getting vaccinated. The guys who work in my department are pretty open about getting their shots, most have already had their first Moderna. The shot clinic at work this Friday will have J&J and Moderna. I've done my best to be a real bastard about enforcing the wearing of masks by our unvaccinated workers. Maybe they'll do it just to get me off their backs.

Right on Bill.

Reading this is a bright spot in my day >>> https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/28/h...-immunity.html

[mnoble485]

I've done my best to be a real bastard about enforcing the wearing of masks by our unvaccinated workers. Maybe they'll do it just to get me off their backs.[/QUOTE]

Visiting the kids and grandkids. 2 of them have not gotten the vax’ed yet so I started to continually bug them. A promise of fat burgers, fries and a shake got them motivated. The younger one said “ Burger was good but at least PopPop will quit bugging us”.

Mission accomplished.

Mike

[vertical_doug]

On June 11th, Scottish Fans descended on London for 2 days of mayhem before the Euro2020 game between England-Scotland. Since then, 1300 fans have tested positive in Scotland.

Because money is so important to UEFA, they have demanded the UK allow dignitaries and others to attend the finals without any quarantines. I am not sure if they are allowing a capacity stadium yet... I wonder where we are sending Delta.
Funny and Predictable. Tokyo may be worse.


D

[BBB]

On June 11th, Scottish Fans descended on London for 2 days of mayhem before the Euro2020 game between England-Scotland. Since then, 1300 fans have tested positive in Scotland.

Because money is so important to UEFA, they have demanded the UK allow dignitaries and others to attend the finals without any quarantines. I am not sure if they are allowing a capacity stadium yet... I wonder where we are sending Delta.
Funny and Predictable. Tokyo may be worse.


D

The fact that the Olympics are going ahead at all while a pandemic is still travelling along at pace and there is no where near universal vaccination is very strange. The head of the IOC cancelled a trip to Japan not so long ago on account of Covid...yet somehow it will be okay to lump athletes from around the world together and have some spectators present at events? Crazy.