It’s telling that there’s no Impeachment thread on VS...

[rowdyhillrambler]

Blue Jays-not for one minute does any one on this thread think that you are sincerely offended.. you keep referring to decorum and some sort of moral high road-no one thinks that you mean this-it’s a vapid attempt at victimization. And-not even clever

If you were truly offended by ‘decorum’ and ‘eff bombs’ than at no point could you defend such a gentleman as our beloved POtuS.

We get it, we get it.. moral superiority

[thollandpe]

Speaker Pelosi was (correctly) furious when the floor burst into applause/cheering.

Furious? Hardly. Why mischaracterize and exaggerate the woman’s actions?

Twitter

[HorsCat]

Furious? Hardly. Why mischaracterize and exaggerate the woman’s actions?

Twitter

It’s probably of a piece with Trump’s “she’s bleeding out of her wherever,” and similar.

[Blue Jays]

Good grief. What politicians are doing thousands of miles away should have no impact on how we engage here.
This is a salon. It is essentially like the Finger Lakes Ramble, Ballers Ride, or similar event...except held virtually.

I consider each of you friends. A few of us here hold minority opinions, and that is fine. It is what makes relationships fun.

[sine]

edit

see Trump and his family benefit financially from his position,

Are Trump's Businesses in Trouble? The President's Brand Isn't Helping - Rolling Stone

[ides1056]

Good grief. What politicians are doing thousands of miles away should have no impact on how we engage here.
This is a salon. It is essentially like the Finger Lakes Ramble, Ballers Ride, or similar event...except held virtually.

I consider each of you friends. A few of us here hold minority opinions, and that is fine. It is what makes relationships fun.

I agree. My wife hasn't spoken to a long-time friend of hers who voted for Trump. I think she is wrong to do this. People voted their party and conscience. This is their right.

[HorsCat]

@ Blue Jays --

You have it exactly wrong. Leadership matters, because it sets the tone for what the rest of us do and how we behave. Ergo, corrupt, criminal, uncivil, mendacious, profane, incompetent, lazy, ignorant, untruthful, racist, misogynist, fuck-everyone-and-everything leadership says to the rest of us that being corrupt, criminal, uncivil, mendacious, profane, incompetent, lazy, ignorant, untruthful, racist, misogynist, fuck-everyone-and-everything is a-ok. Unfortunately for most of the rest of us, we can't rely on daddy's millions to shield us from our shameless behavior, and we don't have the benefit of the Constitution and tendentious OLC legal memoranda protecting us from criminal prosecution.

[theflashunc]

#BeBest .

That will never not be funny.

[HorsCat]

#BeBest .

That will never not be funny.

No doubt about that. Early in the abomination that is the Trump presidency I was sympathetic to Melania but over time she has revealed herself to be a vapid wench who is perfectly suited to her adulterer husband.

[Blue Jays]

"...@ Blue Jays --

You have it exactly wrong. Leadership matters, because it sets the tone for what the rest of us do and how we behave. Ergo, corrupt, criminal, uncivil, mendacious, profane, incompetent, lazy, ignorant, untruthful, racist, misogynist, fuck-everyone-and-everything leadership says to the rest of us that being corrupt, criminal, uncivil, mendacious, profane, incompetent, lazy, ignorant, untruthful, racist, misogynist, fuck-everyone-and-everything is a-ok. Unfortunately for most of the rest of us, we can't rely on daddy's millions to shield us from our shameless behavior, and we don't have the benefit of the Constitution and tendentious OLC legal memoranda protecting us from criminal prosecution..."

My approach is that the actions of politicians far away from me do not impact my comportment among friends.
My relationship with friends is not impacted since everything is at entirely different levels and proximity.

The regular day-to-day activities are (mostly) unchanged except for if legislation I do not support gets passed.
In that event...emails and phone calls get directed to local, state, and national levels as needed to influence change.

[ides1056]

In my lifetime my country has waged non-stop war all over the globe. This has not made me a war-monger.

I agree leadership matters, but.

Trump is a pathetic human being. No argument.

I voted against him once and will do so again.

[theflashunc]

My approach is that the actions of politicians far away from me do not impact my comportment among friends.
My relationship with friends is not impacted since everything is at entirely different levels and proximity.

The regular day-to-day activities are (mostly) unchanged except for if legislation I do not support gets passed.
In that event...emails and phone calls get directed to local, state, and national levels as needed to influence change.

All of that speaks to the profound level of privilege you have in this country. The policies of the administration are very real and having a significant impact on people's lives. Maybe not anyone you know, but they're here and Americans nonetheless.

Without the President's rhetoric, is a neo Nazi emboldened enough to drive a car into a crowd of counter protestors in Charlottesville? Given his central campaign platform on immigration, does the Wal Mart shooting in El Paso happen?

Words, especially coming from the person occupying the most powerful job on the planet, really matter. And they affect all of us, whether we want to admit it or not. The man's never stopped campaigning, never stopped the "us vs them" divisiveness of the campaign trail. He hasn't once tried to rise above partisan politics and appeal to all of our better natures.

Here's a wonderful example from just the last 24 hours: He just suggested last night John Dingell (the longest serving Congressman ever) is in hell, and his wife should be grateful the President was nice to her after he died. And said this at a political rally no less. To use some language you might not like; no matter where you sit on the political spectrum, that is deeply fucked up.

But that kind of thing normalizes and sends the very loud signal to everyone across the country that, well, the President can do it, why can't I?

[davids]

I happily left this conversation alone for 24 hours and come back to dozens of new posts...

Regarding the Stormy Daniels situation. The relevant issue is not that Trump had an affair with her. It's that his campaign paid hush money to her (and to at least one other) to prevent her story from emerging during the 2016 campaign. That is a violation of federal law.

It's telling that this point didn't come up in any of the back and forth here. We've either forgotten, or been misdirected to think the affair is the critical point. It's discouraging that we can't keep the true problems in focus and I shudder as I give Trump credit for his success in knocking us all so fundamentally off-balance.

As I said, I think Trump is a pathetic and loathsome guy, and screwing a porn star is quite on point for him. But that's not my business, except as I decide whether to vote for him. What is my business is whether my elected President broke the laws he's sworn to uphold.

I believe there's copious evidence that he has repeatedly broken our laws. He's a crook, and should be removed from the office of President and barred from running again.

[mzilliox]

im trying to come to terms with what it takes to require (or strongly ask for over and over) decency and decorum from your "friends" (or perfect strangers on a bike forum), who's actions have very little real impact on the lives of everyone. but you do not require decency and decorum from your chosen leader of this country, an elected official who is a servant to we the people?

im just trying to figure out this dichotomy, and how one can achieve it with honesty.

[Corso]

Is there a term in psychology that describes a preference for believing the most convoluted, farfetched explanation rather than the simple, likely one? If not, it should be called MAGAphoria.

Like when Hillary & Co blamed a half-ass utooob video for causing the Benghazi Attack?

Or Pres Clinton: “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is."

Or Pres Obama: “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

Some believed all the above. How about "Demtasmagoria"?

[theflashunc]

Like when Hillary & Co blamed a half-ass utooob video for causing the Benghazi Attack?

Or Pres Clinton: “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is."

Or Pres Obama: “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

Some believed all the above. How about "Demtasmagoria"?

Russia, if you're listening, find the missing emails.

I'd like China to open an investigation into the Bidens.

"What you just described was a quid quo pro..." "We do that all the time in foreign policy."

In fairness that last one was Mick Mulvaney. He'd be a wonderful witness to testify, no wonder the administration is keeping him far away from this.

[Ras72]

I find it interesting that many come in favor of or defense to Trump’s BS is always, ‘like when...’ or ‘it’s not as bad as...’.
Why do we always compare something bad to something worse in order to make it good? That rational is not winning me over.
I still think the American people could do much better.

[davids]

I find it interesting that many come in favor of or defense to Trump’s BS is always, ‘like when...’ or ‘it’s not as bad as...’.
Why do we always compare something bad to something worse in order to make it good? That rational is not winning me over.
I still think the American people could do much better.

Thank you. It's such a weak tactic and yet so many of us get sucked into it.

I hope, pray and work for the day when your final thought becomes reality.

[vertical_doug]

Or Pres Obama: “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

Some believed all the above. How about "Demtasmagoria"?

At least he was trying to come up with a plan to deal with the 44mm uninsured americans. It did drop the number of uninsured to 27mm. More needs to be done.
Since 2013 when Obamacare went into effect, the number of uninsured decreased each year, in 2017, the number went up by 500,000 and has increased since with no real plan developed to replace it.

I think we can all agree that no President in memory enjoyed inflicting pain on the weak as much as this one. I think that is the big difference with Reagan. Reagan's policies may have inflicted pain on the poor, but I do not think Reagan enjoyed it, but thought it the right policy. With Trump, he may not even care if it is the right policy, I think he just enjoys the pain it inflicts.

[Matthew Strongin]

Like when Hillary & Co blamed a half-ass utooob video for causing the Benghazi Attack?

Or Pres Clinton: “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is."

Or Pres Obama: “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.”

Some believed all the above. How about "Demtasmagoria"?

No. Those are situations where someone was vague or mistaken, or maybe purposely misled with their statements (I'm not getting into the accuracy of the specific statements you posted). I'm referencing the phenomenon where when a person is presented with two potential explanations for something, one of them resembling a virtual Rube Goldberg machine but supporting their world view and the other being simple and straightforward, they choose the absurd Rube Goldberg explanation.