Cycle Truck-style design. Thoughts?

[cblandford]

My never-ending quest for a favorite errand bicycle continues. I’ve ridden long-tails, built a sorta “mid-tail” thing, owned a couple front-loading cargo bikes, and ridden regular bikes with all kinds of racks. Pros and cons and all of that. One type of bicycle that I haven’t ridden, however, is the Cycle Truck-style. As such, I’m going to build myself one.

After reading what I can about their design, I’ve come up with the following (pertinent dimensions displayed):



I’m fairly well versed on front-end geometry (or, at least I understand how each dimension is figured and how they relate to one another). With this design, I attempted to balance the bike’s head angle and fork rake with the resulting trail/flop values and center-of-gravity for the load.

My eyes tell me that this looks like a bicycle that’ll handle… bicycle-like. That usually translates, I’m finding! If anyone with experience, however, has observations about front-loaders like this, I’d love to read them. If not, no worries. I shall report back down the road regardless, when/if this machine doesn’t kill me.

Happy Monday.

-Chris

[cblandford]

I'm alive! Phew!

Finally got this one built up enough for a test ride. Don't mind the unfinished fillets and parts-bin-let's-just-see-how-this-thing-rolls-around build.














I realize there wasn't any interest in this thread, but I promised to report back. So here you go. I built this exactly as designed, above. (Less--of course--the Steps mid drive. I decided to build up a "regular" version first, so that I could tweak geometry if needed. The "e" version is next...)

In short: I'm in love!

At speed with a load, the bike is really stable. Hands free, arms out, saddle between the knees, grinning fun. Unloaded, however, the steering is a touch light for my taste. I may shorten up the rake or steepen the head angle just a bit on V2. I could live with it as is, but I think I can improve the unloaded handling some. Other than that, this monster handles really well. I'm especially surprised at how well it handles ultra-low-speed maneuvering. I'm not able to track stand on my regular porteur-style commuter (with a front load jostling about), but this bike is a different thing. Sweet!

Anyway, there you go. Cycle-truck. We'll see how it holds up while I build the e-version.

-Chris

[cblandford]

EDIT: I meant *slacken* up the head angle just a bit... Can't find the Edit button.

-Chris

[darkmother]

That is really cool. I'd love to have something like that for hauling stuff around.

How much weight do you think you could put in that front basket before it became 'too much'?

Jeremy Maclennan

[cblandford]

It's beautiful. Great work. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the followup.

Thanks!

How much weight do you think you could put in that front basket before it became 'too much'?

I threw the pictured basket on there just so I could test the frame with a decent load. Call it 25 pounds. My plan, though, is to build a detachable platform that would mount directly to the two cantilevered tubes. I may mount an even larger Wald basket on top of that--for groceries and such. Really though, I wanted a bike like this more to carry bulk than weight. Large boxes to UPS, etc. That said, if my jump-up-and-down-on-it-to-see-how-strong-it-turned-out-test says anything, I imagine those tubes would (will?) hold more weight than I'd ever want to pedal around. They're stout. I likely won't test their limits anytime soon!

-Chris

[Blacklabbikes]

That looks great - what did you use as seat-tube?

[cblandford]

That looks great - what did you use as seat-tube?

It's straight gauge .035 (31.8), shimmed to fit a 27.2 post. I thought about sleeving around both junction points for good measure, but on this version decided not to. I think for v2--the one I'll keep and ride indefinitely--I will do that. Any reason you ask? Always curious...

-Chris

[VertigoCycles]

Nice work! They're infinitely useful. I traded a DiAcro No. 2 to Joseph Ahearne for one of his and now it's my wife's main bike. I've loaded the basket up with 50lb and it rides great. I used to throw pillows and a blanket in the basket and stick my kid in there to take her to pre-school. It was honestly my favorite way to haul kids because you get to talk with them so easily. These days, my wife just throws her bags in it and commutes to work. The only downside is that it's a pain to store in a small house/shed/garage due to its size.

[cblandford]

Nice work! They're infinitely useful. I traded a DiAcro No. 2 to Joseph Ahearne for one of his and now it's my wife's main bike. I've loaded the basket up with 50lb and it rides great. I used to throw pillows and a blanket in the basket and stick my kid in there to take her to pre-school. It was honestly my favorite way to haul kids because you get to talk with them so easily. These days, my wife just throws her bags in it and commutes to work. The only downside is that it's a pain to store in a small house/shed/garage due to its size.

Cool! I ripped off Joseph's design(s) as best I could without going over there to bug him in person - ha. And yah, my 3-year-old daughter already asked me, "Where do I sit?"... Thanks for the compliments.

[cargonaut]

That’s a nice looking cycle truck! 20” front end geometry seems more like a mystery compared to full size wheels. I made a couple dozen 20”wheel bikes over the years for myself (a hobbyist) and have gravitated towards less fork offset/lots of trail. I think the last one worked out to about 70mm trail, 15mm offset, about 71 degree head. Good slow speed hands-off, good at speed, and with some weight up front. It doesn’t seem to have any of the nervous or wandering handling characteristics typical of some small wheelers. I suppose the best way to find out what you like is to make a fork with a number of slots for the front wheel and try em out��

Drew Devereux

[cblandford]

That’s a nice looking cycle truck! 20” front end geometry seems more like a mystery compared to full size wheels. I made a couple dozen 20”wheel bikes over the years for myself (a hobbyist) and have gravitated towards less fork offset/lots of trail. I think the last one worked out to about 70mm trail, 15mm offset, about 71 degree head. Good slow speed hands-off, good at speed, and with some weight up front. It doesn’t seem to have any of the nervous or wandering handling characteristics typical of some small wheelers. I suppose the best way to find out what you like is to make a fork with a number of slots for the front wheel and try em out��

Drew Devereux

Thanks for the feedback, Drew. The more I ride this one, the more I'm leaning toward increasing the trail as well. There's something about the load being attached to the frame (and the front wheel being small and naturally skittish, obviously), that is telling me to reduce the rake quite a bit. Time to start on v2, for sure. I appreciate the thoughts!

-Chris

[Blacklabbikes]

It's straight gauge .035 (31.8), shimmed to fit a 27.2 post. I thought about sleeving around both junction points for good measure, but on this version decided not to. I think for v2--the one I'll keep and ride indefinitely--I will do that. Any reason you ask? Always curious...

-Chris

Just idly planning something simmilar

[claritycycler]

Nice build! What wall thickness did you use for the long steerer?

thanks, Brian

[cblandford]

Nice build! What wall thickness did you use for the long steerer?

thanks, Brian

Thanks. For this one, I used the entirety of the beefiest steerer from Nova. Take that for what it's worth (which is nothing, because I don't know anything). For the next one, however, it was suggested to me that--if I needed a longer steerer--I could use .095" straight gauge. So I may do that for v2... that one is going to an e-cycletruck anyway--not worried about weight at all.

-Chris

[claritycycler]

.....For the next one, however, it was suggested to me that--if I needed a longer steerer--I could use .095" straight gauge......

-Chris

I'm extremely tall, long steerers(as long as the Nova) are the norm for me. Hobby builder, I've been using 1.125, .083 wall with no issues, I weigh 240+- so probably would work for your application, might save close to .5 lb by going with the .083.

Btw, your finished bike in Friday picfest #549 is very elegant/beautiful. The v-2 of your cycle truck(in the same post) has really taken on a great new direction, like it alot and looking forward to the end result.

regards, Brian

[edelbikes]

Hi,
I built a very similar bike a few years ago, I still use all the time (with a rear Bafang motor hub). For the geometry I used 70 degrees HTA, and a 36mm rake for a 315mm long fork. It handles very well, even on fast downhills. I just find it bit more nervous when it's heavily loaded. The main issue I found so far is that the load on the front rack has a tendency to bounce a lot (it can really be a problem when carrying fresh fruits, etc...).
32550796384_bf86bbf74f_k.jpg

[cblandford]

Btw, your finished bike in Friday picfest #549 is very elegant/beautiful. The v-2 of your cycle truck(in the same post) has really taken on a great new direction, like it alot and looking forward to the end result.

Thanks! More photos here, if you're interested: Personal Tourer | The Bland Bicycle. The next cycletruck is almost done. Just a few (like 30) fillets to file. I'll post a photo here when I'm done.

Hi,
I built a very similar bike a few years ago, I still use all the time (with a rear Bafang motor hub). For the geometry I used 70 degrees HTA, and a 36mm rake for a 315mm long fork. It handles very well, even on fast downhills. I just find it bit more nervous when it's heavily loaded. The main issue I found so far is that the load on the front rack has a tendency to bounce a lot (it can really be a problem when carrying fresh fruits, etc...).
32550796384_bf86bbf74f_k.jpg

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Makes sense about the heavy, bouncing load. I'll be curious to see how my electric-assist version with an integrated basket handles weight. Fingers crossed.




-Chris

[cblandford]

For those following along, v2 (e-V1?) is done. This was the best I could come up with to accommodate the main Steps bits (battery and motor cabinet). I decided to ditch the twin-tube/platform thing from V1 and build something more integrated. Hence the behemoth basket (actually, the same size as a Wald 139) cantilevered off the headtube/frame. Beefing up the headtube also allowed me to design for a smaller stack 44mm headset, which lowered the platform a little bit. Everything else stayed the same, less the few hours of filing and a little more this-one-will-probably-be-a-keeper care being taken.

Road a few miles yesterday around our hills with about 50 pounds loaded up. Effortless with the assist, and more stable all around than the previous version, I think. The thing is a tank. I like it. Getting closer to my ultimate errand bike, I think.

Now I have to decide if I'm going to bother a painter with a fillet-brazed e-bike (ha) or just drop this thing off for powder...

-Chris

[cblandford]

Here's the final result of this cycle truck effort. I ended up having this one painted, and I hung some nice parts on the frame. It's a keeper! Officially unofficially number... 6ish. Thanks for all of the previous feedback!















-Chris

[Guillaume]

Love it! Good job!