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A Father-Daughter Build Thread
I am about to start on a new project, and thought I would try something a little different. I hope this thread proves enjoyable for you and informative for me.
To date, I’ve built five or six keeper-bicycles. Three or six garbage-bicycles. The numbers depend on who’s counting. In any case, I feel like I’m at a point in my hobby-ism where I’ve established a beginner’s routine. The last couple bikes I built went (oddly) according to plan, which was not the case for the first four-or-eight that I built. At the least, I’m no longer (grossly) intimidated by the idea of building a simple bicycle. Learning-curve progress, I think.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1677/bland-v-fd-1.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1678/bland-v-fd-2.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1679/bland-v-fd-3.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1680/bland-v-fd-4.jpg
And so, I figured it was time for a little reflection; I think I need to really check-in on my budding processes.
I’m going to document a project here in this thread. Start to finish. With photos and explanations. To this point I’ve taken photos and made notes as I’ve gone along, but not in a real, comprehensive way. I think it’ll be interesting to get it all down in one spot, here. To the pros and more experienced hobbyists: I’d love your thoughts and feedback as I go along if you’re willing to share them. To those (like myself, previously) who are just trying to figure out how to slap a frame together: please note that is not meant to be any sort of hack’s how-to. I’m doing this to open myself up to criticism in an effort to improve upon an activity that I’m finding I truly enjoy. I don’t know anything. Take this for what it’s worth, which is very little.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1681/bland-v-fd-5.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1682/bland-v-fd-6.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1683/bland-v-fd-7.jpg
So here we go.
The project, briefly: I’m going to build a pair of kinda-matching bicycles, for my daughter and myself. Mathilda turns four in February and is ready for her first pedal bike. Her only request is that her new bike be “pink... like a giraffe”. I like the sounds of a pink-life-a-giraffe bike, too, so I thought I’d build both of us new rides. I’m looking forward to cruising alongside her, each atop our own single-speed giraffe. As I type this I’ve little idea what these bikes are going to look like outside of a few key details. So--come along--we’ll find out together.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1684/bland-v-fd-8.jpg
If nothing else, enjoy the show-and-tell. I owe this forum more enjoyment than I can repay, but perhaps this will relieve some of my debt.
Back with more soon.
-Chris
PS. I’ve started this thread in The Path because I think it’ll be more fun if I open up the heckling to everyone. That said, if--as I go along--certain things warrant their own Mentor thread, I may start new ones over there, too. We’ll see how it goes. I personally know which voices carry what weight in this place, but I’ll try and make things useful for those reading this ten years out.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Before I dive in, a couple notes:
I took the UBI framebuilding course in the summer of 2015, and then again--because I’m a terrible student--in the spring of 2017. Tony Pereira (of Breadwinner) and Dan Harrison (now of Vanilla) were the instructors the first time around. Ron Sutphin and Rich Bernouli taught the second course. So hey, if I show something here that indicates bad habits, blame the four of them! Ha. (Anything of apparent quality, though, is completely my doing. Obviously.)
I currently build my bicycles in a small studio that sits above our home's detached garage. I also actual-work from that same space, and try to steal an hour or two each afternoon for the bicycle stuff. At the very least I’m down in my “shop” most evenings, after the dog has been fed and Mathilda is asleep. Sports talk radio during the day, music at night. Picture painted, I hope.
My space is mostly machine-less. I own a drill press, belt sander, and a cordless drill. That’s about it. For fixtures, I have an Anvil frame jig and an Anvil fork jig. A Sputnik braze-on kit. Some other little things. Various bending... devices. We’ll get to all of that stuff, I’m sure.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1687/bland-v-fd-11.jpg
Finally, I have no supervised fabrication/metalworking experience (outside of my time at UBI), nor do I have any real bicycle experience. (I’ve certainly never worked in a bike shop. Or raced. Or even ridden with a group, actually.) A perfect recipe for bicycle-making success, yes? I’m just a lifelong commuter/get-arounder/tinkerer/self-maintenance-er. Feel free to judge accordingly. Given my experience and intentions, I’m quite unoffendable in this realm.
Anyway, that's the context. I thought it was important.
Phew. Now then...
Here’s what we’re building.
A FATHER/DAUGHTER PAIR OF BICYCLES
For the Father (me, 34 years young):
700c x 35mm-ish Singlespeed Cruiser
For the Daughter (Mathilda, 3 years old):
16” x 1.75” Singlespeed Pedal Bike
Both bikes will feature fillet-brazed frames and (most likely) lugged forks. My bike might also get a fillet-brazed stem. Mathilda’s bike will likely not. Both bikes will get hand-operated V-brakes--number and locations to be determined.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1685/bland-v-fd-9.jpg
My tentative plan is to build both bikes as quasi-mixtes, with curvy twin top-tubes that extend from the headtube to the rear dropouts (Retrotec inspired/shamelessly ripped off). This might change if I’m unable to execute them on the Daughter Bike for whatever reason. Clearances and such. We’ll find out. I’ve built one mixte previously, but it sucked... hard. It now hangs on my wall, unfinished, and mocks me daily. So this should be fun.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1688/bland-v-fd-12.jpg
Neither bike will have fenders. No racks. Minimal braze-ons. Pretty simple, compared to my last couple projects. I may try my hand at internal-routing the rear brake cable on the Daughter Bike. I’m indifferent to internal cable routing in general, but in this case, it might be nice to keep the potential-flesh-wounders (braze-ons) to a minimum. A kid’s bike sounds challenging enough already, though, so we’ll see.
My goal is to have both bicycles ready for paint before the holidays. Fingers crossed. That should give Black Magic Paint enough time to get them painted by mid-February--Mathilda’s fourth birthday is on the 16th.
That’s the plan.
My first action when starting on a bicycle is to brainstorm a bit and visualize the bike as a whole. Do a little photo research. Make mental notes. So that’s what I did, for these bikes, last night. Ironically, this is the same way I begin a new professional project, too. I find photos of better work than I’m capable of, print them, and hang them on the wall. A target at which to aim, I suppose.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1686/bland-v-fd-10.jpg
Tonight I’ll put together an actual design and a list of needed materials. I'm excited to get started and find out what I'm completely overlooking, this time.
Back tomorrow-ish.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Looks like a fun project, Chris. I'm a former elementary school teacher and have done quite a lot of cycling with young kids of various ages. Have you seen your daughter on a bike yet with handbrakes? My experience is that the kids around 5-6 tend not to do so well with them and often prefer bikes with coaster brakes. Hand braking involves multi-tasking (balancing, judging traffic conditions and safety, and pulling on the brake levers to various amounts of hand strength.) As they get older, around age 7-8 they get better judging how much brake to use, and by age 10 they are proficient. My suggestion is that when you first put her on the new bike, try to do some braking drills in a safe area with no distractions. With some practice braking while pedaling or coasting, she'll get it-- but don't assume she has it already. Safety first!
Have fun on your rides!
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Very cool project, I'm really looking forward to following as it progresses.
regards, Brian
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Cool. My advice is to include your daughter in every step of the build. The entire thing.
It will be good for her, and it will be good for you.
Cool.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bill Bryant
...Have you seen your daughter on a bike yet with handbrakes? My experience is that the kids around 5-6 tend not to do so well with them and often prefer bikes with coaster brakes...
Bill - Yah, I've been snooping around the local shops for a couple of weeks, eyeing details like this. I really thought I'd see more 12 & 16" pedal bikes with coaster brakes. I've been surprised that many (most?) these days feature little Tektro mini V's instead. I have distinct memories of being 4/5 years old and skidding my coaster-braked bike down my old driveway. Doesn't everyone?
Anyway, I figure I'll design the frame to accept the little V brakes. I can always default to a coaster hub if the hand brake gives Mathilda trouble. She's tearing around on her brakeless balance bike pretty good these days. My plan is to let her get used to this new bike as merely a "big" balance bike--with brakes--first, then add the drivetrain bits and teach her to pedal. One piece at a time, as your comments suggest. Thanks for the input. We'll see how it goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
claritycycler
Very cool project, I'm really looking forward to following as it progresses.
regards, Brian
Sweet - thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mark Walberg
...My advice is to include your daughter in every step of the build. The entire thing.
It will be good for her, and it will be good for you...
I've been going back and forth--whether to include her or make it a surprise. I think you're right, though; we'll both be better for it (in many ways) if she can "help" along the way. The final product can be a surprise... The building of the thing shouldn't be. Thanks for mentioning that.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Great story and photos and I’m looking forward to following.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
"...My advice is to include your daughter in every step of the build. The entire thing.
It will be good for her, and it will be good for you..."
I strongly second this method! Lots of kids remember most of their bikes for a lifetime(I do), but making one with dad? Never to be forgotten(for both of you).
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/168...d-v-fd-13b.jpg
Time to play connect the dots.
To this point, I’ve been designing my bicycles based--largely--on the published geometry charts of brands and builders that I respect. I don’t have the riding experience to have justifiable opinions about much of anything. So, I build to match models that look interesting to me, adjusting here-or-there for fit and whatnot.
Given that a kid's bike has all sorts of odd things going on (and given that nobody publishes dimensions for these little bikes) I decided that--for the Daughter Bike--I’d just go ahead and pick up a stock model to have on hand. (Sorry if that’s cheating.) On Wednesday I purchased a 16” Cleary Hedgehog from Clever Cycles here in Portland. This would’ve been the model I’d bought if I wasn’t planning to build Mathilda a bike. Yesterday I stripped the frame (see Nerdnote A) and took measurements, plugging them into BikeCAD as I went along.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1692/bland-v-fd-17.jpg
This is how I usually “design” a bike. I find something to reference, and then enter those dimensions into BikeCAD. Then I iterate/adjust quickly in the computer and, once satisfied, I translate the design into a final full-scale drawing. This is probably (at least) double the necessary work, but I like idiot-checking myself on paper at this stage. And I enjoy the drafting.
Here’s where Mathilda’s bike ended up:
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1690/bland-v-fd-14.jpg
This design matches the Cleary, except in two ways. First, I’m allowing for a lower minimum saddle height and more standover than the Cleary. Mathilda has short little legs for her age. Second, I increased the fork length about 10mm compared to the Cleary (see Nerdnote B).
Once satisfied, I drafted up the frame and fork, full-scale. As I do this I start pulling parts, too. I tend to over-order when I buy frame bits. As such, I have a small-but-ever-growing collection of dropouts and fork crowns lying around. Helpful here. I'll likely order a few additional pieces this time around, too.
Having completed The Daughter bike drawing, I moved on to The Father bike drawing.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1691/bland-v-fd-15.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1693/bland-v-fd-20.jpg
Little to see here, I think. When I was in college, I lusted after another student’s Gunnar Streetdog. Figured I’d take the chance to make myself one, now, with a couple slight modifications. Next, I drafted the full-scale version just as before (see Nerdnote C).
Now that these are done, I have enough info to order parts. I’ll do that tonight.
-Chris
Nerdnote A:
I’m actually really impressed by the Cleary, and surprised at how much of a “real” bike it is. 68mm BB; square taper cartridge; regular 1” threadless steerer and headset; 28.6 down, top, and seat tubes; 25.4 seat post; 100mm front spacing; 110mm rear (that'll be interesting); 305 BSD (that’ll be interesting, too); little Tektro brakes; on and on. Unfortunately, though, this thing is HEAVY. Holy hell. I wish I owned a scale. I definitely don’t trust the published weight! It’s a tank. I think I can cut down on the weight significantly, both in the frame/fork and in the components. I'll give this bike away when I'm done with this project. If you'd like it, call dibs.
Nerdnote B:
I had a feeling I’d be testing the lower-limits on my Anvil jig for this project, and this indeed turned out to be the case. It was oh-so-close, though. Increasing the fork length 10mm moved the headtube bottom (the Anvil’s primary setup point) in-bounds. (I designed this bike with the jig setup dimensions displayed… shown above highlighted in orange.) That’s a slight concession, but it’s better than having to build a one-off jig for this little bike.
Nerdnote C:
Axle Line > Bottom bracket drop/rise and diameter > Seat tube angle > Effective seat tube length > Effective top tube length > Headtube angle > Fork rake > Front BSD > Front tire > Front fender > Clearance > Crown width > Lower headset stack > Headtube diameter and length > Down tube diameter > Seat tube diameter > Top tube location, angle and diameter > Rear wheel BSD > Rear tire. Chainstay length > Chain/seat stay top view (I usually do this later, though).
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quick update:
I ordered materials for both bikes on Friday. I’m going to swing by Framebuilder Supply and pick up the bike-specific tubing from Tony tomorrow. Dropouts and a few other bits are on their way from Paragon. And a bunch of straight gauge steel is en route from Aircraft Spruce.
I over-ordered, as usual. Adding to my collection. I’ll find a use for everything at some point.
One thing that did come up while I was ordering was figuring out chainstays for The Daughter bike. I was planning on using straight gauge 4130, and bending it to suit. As I was sorting through my pile of tubes, however, I started eyeing some seatstays. I went back to the drawing board (literally) and quickly completed a chainstay top view. And yes, the shape of a pair of (previously “ruined”) 16mm s-bend seatstays would work perfectly on Mathilda’s bike. But I wondered about the strength. Then I started thinking about where else I might use lighter weight, bike-specific tubes on this little frame...
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1695/bland-v-fd-22.jpg
So I posed the question over in the Mentor forum. I normally wouldn’t ask wall-thickness questions about something I’m making (because I’d simply err on the side of way-overbuilt), but in this case I figured it was worth an ask. Anything I can do to keep the weight down seems worthwhile.
That’s it for now. While I wait for parts, my next couple evenings will be spent practicing my brazing.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Ok, enough of the planning and ordering. Off we go. I’m going to start with the Daughter bike, and--as such--have set aside the Father bike’s materials for now.
To this point, I’ve always started with my bicycles’ frames. So, same here.
Steps for today:
1. Clean and Inspect Main Tubes
2. Miter Front Triangle
...
First, I clean the head, seat, top (though not in this case), and down tubes, inside and out. For this, I use 80 grit emery cloth (shoe shine style) and 91% isopropyl alcohol.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1699/bland-v-fd-26.jpg
Next, I mark the tubes for orientation. I have one of the small Bringheli surface plates. I roll each tube across this plate--sighting between the tube and the surface--to find its bow. I mark the “top” of the bow. I’ll orient the bows in the vertical plane (? sorry, I should’ve paid more attention in Geometry) of the bike/jig.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1697/bland-v-fd-24.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1696/bland-v-fd-23.jpg
Next I Sharpie and scribe a line along the “top” of the tubes. I do this by holding the tube against a piece of U-channel aluminum. I like the Sharpie for visibility, but the scribe carries through the build process better. So I do both.
At the same time, I cut the head tube to length (based on the full-scale drawing) and square off its ends on the disk-side of my belt sander. I also mark the center of the bottom bracket, using my calipers as a scribe. If any of the tubes I’m using are butted, this is also where I’ll mark the butts. I do this by referencing the spec sheets (found on the supplier’s website). I also confirm the specs by holding the tube up to my skylight and sighting the internal butts. The main tubes of this bike, however, are straight gauge, so I skipped that step here.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1700/bland-v-fd-27.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1698/bland-v-fd-25.jpg
Next, I move on to mitering.
I hand-miter everything. First, I print the little paper templates from BikeCAD, cut them out, and tape them to the tubes. The templates have indicator lines that I line up with my scribed “top” line. I get the distance between miters from my full-scale drawing. Then I trace the templates with a sharpie and slide the templates off of the tubes.
The miters are first cut out (within a few mm’s) with hardware store-bought tin snips. Then they’re shaped with half-round files (the size of which matches the mating tube’s diameter). Finally, I hone them in with the mating tube wrapped in a piece of 80-grit emery cloth. I load the tubes into the jig as I go (which is now set, I should have mentioned, based on my drawing/BikeCAD).
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1701/bland-v-fd-28.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1702/bland-v-fd-29.jpg
If there’s one tip I could give someone new to hand mitering, it would be this: act like a machine! I treat my file strokes like a machinist trams the head of mill (I think). I always try to file horizontal to the ground, and either parallel or 90-degrees to the edge of my workbench. If a tube requires an angled cope, I adjust the angle of the tube in the vise, not the angle of my file stroke. If a tube requires an actually-angled miter (like a unicrown fork blade with rake built-in), I adjust the angle of the vise in relation to my bench; I don’t change where I stand or the direction of my filing. In addition, I affix two Paragon tubing blocks to each tube (using the surface table to keep them in phase), and I keep these blocks on the tubes until all the mitering is done, just like a machinist would. I do this so that as I go back and forth between vise and jig, I’m not having to re-orient the tube in a block, potentially messing with the phase. Finally, I use a digital angle finder and my eyes (sighting along the vise or bench top) to check the miters.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1703/bland-v-fd-30.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1704/bland-v-fd-31.jpg
All of that, above, was an epiphany I had a couple frames ago. Act like a machine. (I realize that these types of things are probably very obvious to someone with fabrication experience.) As a result, my mitering has gotten much more accurate as of late. This time around, I only had to check the downtube in the jig a couple times before it fit nicely. On my first couple frames I chased my tail for hours. Maybe days. It’s really satisfying to improve at something like that, even if just a bit. I wish I’d had this epiphany earlier… My files would be much sharper than they are now!
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1705/bland-v-fd-32.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1706/bland-v-fd-33.jpg
The front triangle is now mitered up. Chainstays are next.
That’s it for now. I apologize for the garbage photos... Dark, winter evenings here in Oregon.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Great project. Thanks for sharing the details. Looking forward to following the progress.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Best of luck! One of my more enjoyable builds was a bike for my daughter.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
suzyj
Best of luck! One of my more enjoyable builds was a bike for my daughter.
Thanks Suzy! Also, I should mention that I've (retroactively) enjoyed your blog tremendously over the past couple years. One of those places on the internet I reference often. Very inspiring!
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Moving on to the chainstays.
Steps for today:
…
3. Tab Dropouts; Slot Chainstays
4. Braze Dropouts to Chainstays
5. Finish Chainstay Ends
...
Before I dive in, one thing to note. For the first couple frames I made I did things one step at a time, with a sort of process tunnel vision. Now, however, I tend to do things whenever it makes most sense in the overall build. An example of this is with the chainstays. Previously, I would’ve brazed the front triangle together before even touching a chainstay or dropout. Now, however, I work on these as separate sub-assemblies of a larger whole, prepping everything in anticipation of finally joining stuff together.
Anyway. I begin by laying my chainstays on top of my overview drawing. I include the tire, chainring(s), and crankarm in these drawings, and check that the chainstay will clear all three. I also check that the outer diameter of the dropout end isn’t wider than the tab on the dropout. It’s a bit of a balancing act to choose the most appropriate chainstay (to this point I’ve only bought pre-formed stays--I haven’t bent my own) and get it ideally positioned. Once satisfied, I trim the dropout end of the stay to length and rough-cut the BB ends to length. Then I lay the chainstays on my surface plate and run a straightedge across their tops, scribing a “top” line onto both.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1720/bland-v-fd-46.jpg
Tool note: I use my Anvil fork jig as a makeshift chainstay jig. A while back, I made a crude little adapter that fits in the steerer tube holder of this jig. It holds the BB ends of the chainstays in place while I work on them, kinda like a crappy chainstay mitering fixture. (I miter out of the fixture, but the jig is helpful for getting everything in its place.) I use the fork rake measurement and a little math as a makeshift BB drop/rise indicator.
Next, I put a tab on the dropout. For chainstays, I’ve been making these 8-10mm deep. I check the internal diameter of the small end of the trimmed chainstay, and take off an equal amount of material from each side of the dropout (hacksaw first, then files), so that the tab fits into the stay.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1709/bland-v-fd-35.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1708/bland-v-fd-34.jpg
Now tabbed, I can place the dropouts onto their dummy axle and load them into the jig. I return the chainstays to my drawing, and trace their shape onto the paper. From this, I make note of the chainstay-to-tab angle. I also note the length of the stays (to the back of the BB) and distance between one another at the BB. I slide the chainstays into the jig and onto the tabbed dropouts, and then move the axle holder assembly back and forth until the spacing (on the BB side) is as measured. I use a straightedge held against the dropout face to double-check my slot angle.
Next, I slot the chainstay ends. Using a hacksaw, I cut a slot the width of the dropout, 8-10mm deep (for 16-20mm total overlap), at the angle measured and confirmed previously. I then finish the slot with a slotting file (?... the flat one!). Finally, I spearpoint the end of the stays using a large round file.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1710/bland-v-fd-36.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1713/bland-v-fd-39.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1712/bland-v-fd-38.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1714/bland-v-fd-40.jpg
To prep for brazing, I first dry fit everything. My goal is a tight-fitting tab/slot along with an assembly that is held in the fixture without having to apply any force to the tubes. Sometimes, my slot angle will end up a touch off. If this is the case, I’ll nudge the dropout tab in/out a smidge, using my vise and a large wrench. This time around, though, everything played nicely.
I use the usual 80-grit emery and 91% isopropyl to clean the chainstay ends and dropouts. Then I flux everything inside and out, and load the chainstays back into the jig. I braze these vertically--in the jig--as I was shown at UBI. (I know some braze these out of any jig, horizontally, or on a flat surface. I haven’t tried that.)
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1715/bland-v-fd-41.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1711/bland-v-fd-37.jpg
Now might be a good time to show my brazing setup. I’m using Oxy/Acetylene, with a Smith A1WA torch, the little Kevlar hoses, and a few different tips. For bronze, I use Gasflux brand rods and type B flux. For silver, I use Harris brand silver rods with Gasflux type U flux. I’ve also used CycleDesign stainless flux/rods on occasion. I run my O/A tanks at 7 and 6 psi, respectively.
For tab-style dropouts, I use a Smith 203 tip, a neutral soft-rumbling flame, and 1/16th inch bronze rod. For each dropout, the brazing goes something like this:
1. Tack all four “points” of the chainstay to the dropout
2. Get the entire joint up to brazing temperature
3. Sweat the tacks down into and around the slots
4. Fill each side with bronze (hopefully to the bottom of the tab).
I try to shove 14-16”+ of bronze rod into each stay, depending on the volume of the joint (more for a large chainstay end, less here because the end was small).
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1719/bland-v-fd-45.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1716/bland-v-fd-42.jpg
After brazing, I let the chainstay assemblies cool in the jig, then give them a soak in my heated ultrasonic cleaner (water only). Once clean of flux, I finish the ends. (This is another thing I previously did what-now-seems-out-of-order. I used to wait and do all of a frame’s finishing work at the end of the build. It’s much, much easier to do this type of work, though, while the chainstays are loose from the rest of the frame. So, I now finish these before attaching them to the frame.) I worked on these with a little Dremel drum sander and some needle files. At the same time, I also dressed up the tab. These bikes are (hopefully) going to end up very swoopy/curvy, so I thought rounding off the tabs would look complimentary. This was done with small files.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1717/bland-v-fd-43.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1723/bland-v-fd-49.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1722/bland-v-fd-48.jpg
That’s it for now. Next I’ll miter the chainstays, connect the seat tube to the BB, and get all those sub-assemblies prepped for the fillet brazing.
Back soon,
Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Some days I end up with a few minutes to spend on bike stuff, but not enough time to really get into a task. So, that's when I do this.
There's this thread over in the General Discussion forum; it has me a little bummed out. I'm not sure why though, as I have zero interest in "framebuilding" professionally. That thread, however, reminded me that I needed to post photos of my most recent batch of practice fillets. So, here you go:
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1724/bland-v-fd-50.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1725/bland-v-fd-51.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1726/bland-v-fd-52.jpg
For about a year after I completed my second UBI course, I tried to braze one practice fillet joint per day. I definitely fell short, but probably averaged 3 per week. (I do wish I'd kept that pile of metal, though. It would've made a much more interesting photo than these, the past few month's worth.) They were mostly ugly as hell, however, so I chucked them as I went along. In denial. Almost as soon as they were cool enough to touch. Ha.
More recently, I haven't been keeping up with that pace. Now I just try to braze a handful of joints right before I put a frame together. This time around, I brazed five fillets. I love the practice brazing. It's the practice hand-mitering that isn't nearly as on-going-fun. So hey, if you're reading this and you'd like to punch out a few hundred little .035 miters for me on your milling machine, I would pay handsomely-per-unit for them! Just sayin.
Anyway, that's that. Back with the actual build soon.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Over the long holiday weekend, I had Mathilda down in the studio with me a bit. She’s a wiggly almost-four-year-old, so the patience for my show-and-tell is a little short. That said, she’s been enjoying seeing the progress made on her bike, and asks to see the little frame each time we head through my space down to the garage. She’s always loved squishing stuff in my vise, too. I keep having to tell her we will not be squishing her frame. She only seems mildly disappointed.
Onward:
…
6. Miter Chainstays
7. Drill Vent Holes
8. Tin Seat Tube to Bottom Bracket
8. Final Fit & Prep for Brazing
…
I miter my chainstays in the same way as my main tubes. However, there’s one extra (semi-backwards step) that I take here. Back in BikeCAD, I now retroactively make the computer drawing match my chainstay hand drawing. All I care about here is the miter template. So, now that I have a chainstay miter angle (from my hand drawing), I can make the BikeCAD version match. It takes 30 seconds--and I don’t care about the overall shape of the chainstays in BikeCAD, just the diameter and angle. Once done, I print the templates, tape them onto the tubes, and set their distance from the rear axle (which is taken from my hand drawing). Trace, hacksaw to rough length, tin snip, and file.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1727/bland-v-fd-53.jpg
These used to give me fits. I’ve found, however, that thinking of the chainstays as a single unit--instead of individual tubes--has helped me with their mitering quite a bit. Once I get the individual chainstays mitered, I place them onto their dummy axle--together--and lightly clamp them in my vise. Just a light swipe or two with the file--across both tube ends at once--saves a lot of tail-chasing in the jig.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1728/bland-v-fd-54.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1729/bland-v-fd-55.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1730/bland-v-fd-56.jpg
Next I drill all of the vent holes. I first trace the joining tubes’ copes with a Sharpie, then drill the holes on my drill press. I start with a combination center drill/countersink bit, then move to a regular drill bit for each hole. Usually ½ inch for the main tube holes; smaller for the chainstay holes. I also drill vent holes at the dropout end of the chainstays, facing down (obviously) and about 10-20mm from the dropout tab. After drilling the holes, I clean everything up with 80-grit and a swipe of isopropyl.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1731/bland-v-fd-57.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1732/bland-v-fd-58.jpg
Next I tin the seat tube to the bottom bracket. I load up the inside of the seat tube with blue flux, give the BB a light coat, and load the tubes into the jig. I center the seat tube on the BB by checking either side (between the seat tube and BB edge) with calipers. Here, I use the same Smith 203 tip and 1/16th bronze rod as was used on the dropout brazing. I start at the front of the frame, and braze from centerline to 90-degrees in both directions. Then I move around to the back of the frame, and braze from centerline to 90-degrees again, to meet. The goal is a small fillet with full internal penetration the entire circumference of the joint. I let the assembly cool in the jig, then it goes into the soak tank.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1733/bland-v-fd-59.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1734/bland-v-fd-60.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1735/bland-v-fd-61.jpg
The little fillet now gets in the way of the downtube/BB miter. I take a couple swipes at the fillet, and round off the points of the downtube to return the fit to how it was prior to tinning. Again, this is another advantage to working in larger, more cohesive steps. The first couple frames I made, I mitered the downtube after tinning the seat tube to the BB. Getting good fit up was tricky, though, because I wasn’t sure if the miter was as it should be if the little fillet wasn’t there. Much easier now that I have a (slightly) better grasp of the overall process and can avoid this type of thing.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1736/bland-v-fd-62.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1737/bland-v-fd-63.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1738/bland-v-fd-64.jpg
The frame bits are now ready for fillet brazing. Time to have some fun. Hope you're enjoying the show-and-tell as much as Mathilda has been!
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
All right, time to tack and braze this little frame together.
For today:
…
9. Tack Frame in Jig
10. Quick Alignment Check
11. Braze Frame Free of Jig
…
To tack the frame together, I begin by applying blue flux to the tubes and loading them into the jig. I apply a full coat of flux--enough to last through the tacking and the brazing. I also flux about an inch up into the ends of the mitered tubes. Using the same 203 tip, a neutral & rumbling flame, and 1/16th bronze rod, I tack the tubes together along the frame’s centerline. Here’s my tacking sequence:
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1748/bland-v-fd-74.jpg
In short: obtuse angles first--from the BB up and around to the seat tube, and then acute angles--back down and around. The general thinking here is that tacking the obtuse angles first will minimize any pull-apart on the opposing side of the miter, as the bronze will pull the tubes more “into” one another. For chainstays, however, I tack the outside (acute) sides first, then the obtuse sides. This is done to minimize suck-in at the rear dropouts and to keep the rear spacing as designed. (For this little bike, I’m waiting to connect the top tubes along with the seat stays, mixte-style. So, I skipped tacks #3-6.)
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1739/bland-v-fd-65.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1740/bland-v-fd-66.jpg
I let the tacks cool in the jig, then pull the frame. At this point, I haven’t touched the BB with a facer but I go ahead and throw the frame onto my small alignment surface anyway. This is mostly just to check that nothing went super awry during tacking and--less importantly at this point in my learning, I think--to inform the brazing. I use a handy little alignment gauge (available from Compass) to quickly check the head tube and dropouts against the centerline of the frame. (I’ll go over how I check alignment more thoroughly in my next post.) In this instance I found that the headtube and the dropouts both sucked ~1mm toward the non-drive side of the frame’s centerline. This has been a trend with my frames. I think it has to do with the fact that access to the non-drive side of my jig is limited, and it takes me a few seconds longer to get those chainstay tacks in place compared to the drive-side ones. I’m also right-handed and tend to tack looking “over” the headtube of the frame, so the heat is coming from the non-drive side of the frame. I’ve made a mental note to try and work quicker and direct my heat more uniformly into the centerline of the frame. Small progress with each frame, I think.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1741/bland-v-fd-67.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1742/bland-v-fd-68.jpg
Thankfully, the headtube itself showed no twist at this point. I was very pleased about that. Given that this frame--in its current state--only has the down tube to support the head tube during tacking/brazing, I was a little worried things wouldn’t work out so great. So far, so good.
Next, I make a Sharpie mark on the outside of the drive side chainstay as well as on the drive side of the down tube, near the BB. When I go to fillet, I’ll start with these sides of the frame, hopefully sucking things back to center along the way. I’m still learning how to inform my brazing via this alignment check, but I think that’s the idea. I’ll make notes when I’m done and try to improve on the next frame.
Finally, I pull the frame from the table, throw it into a Park stand, and fillet braze all the joints.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1743/bland-v-fd-69.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1744/bland-v-fd-70.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1745/bland-v-fd-71.jpg
For the main fillets, I use the same 203 (sometimes a 205) tip, but use the larger (3/32nd) diameter Gasflux bronze rod. I definitely prefer the larger rod for these joints. As mentioned, I don’t apply any additional flux; I just reheat the flux that was there during tacking. I'd love to try a Gasfluxer, but that'd probably be a silly purchase for someone who brazes a few times a year!
I know there are many schools-of-thought when it comes to fillet brazing. No pre-heat vs. pre-heat. Small and tidy ala tig welding vs. broad and entire-joint-focused. One pass vs. multiple passes. Etc, etc, etc. I’ve read everything I can get my eyes on, and have (mostly) settled on a process. I like to pre-heat my entire joints (including the “back” sides of the tubes) to temperature and then lay down as broad and even a fillet as I can manage, in a single as-fast-as-I-can pass. I’ll scrounge together--and post later--a few links to the writings of Dave Kirk, Steve Garro, etc. that describe this method. Super insightful. This was also how I was shown to fillet braze by Tony Pereira in UBI course #1, so it’s how I started out in my practice and how I’m most comfortable. (Interestingly, Ron Sutphin showed a no-preheat method in UBI course #2. Just different strokes, I think.)
A couple beginner’s insights. First, I braze the harder joints up front! I used to start with the “easy” head tube joints, but have since moved to beginning with the bottom bracket and chainstays, then moving to the head tube and finally finishing with the seat tube. Second, I like to take a quick break between joints. Set the torch down, take a swig of beer, change the album that’s playing, stretch. I try to remember that I don’t need to sweat and stress while I braze. And finally, I try to figure out how I’m going to clamp and move the frame--for each joint--before I light the torch. Gameplan it a bit.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1746/bland-v-fd-72.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1747/bland-v-fd-73.jpg
For what it’s worth, I’m completely in awe of the professionals’ fillet brazing, as shown in this forum and elsewhere. Garro, Kirk, Estlund, Bilenky, Steve Rex, on and on. Pretty ridiculous. What a gulf between those that actually know what they’re doing and someone just learning. I can’t imagine how long it would take me to get to that point. A lifetime. Maybe next time.
That’s it for now. Back to work. More soon.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Appreciate the detailed work your are putting into your write up.
I got lucky and picked up a used Gasfluxer when a frame builder was moving across the country and he wasn't sure it would integrate into his new set up. I've only used it on a couple frames but I like it. At this point I only have 7 frames under my belt and I am more the type to leave it raw and rough and ride it till it brakes and move on to the next one, no patience for soaking flux and hand filling the fillets. I love the idea of practicing a joint a day I need to do it.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shirk
Appreciate the detailed work your are putting into your write up....
Myself as well, thanks a lot for taking the time to share your process.
regards, Brian
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shirk
... I am more the type to leave it raw and rough and ride it till it brakes and move on to the next one, no patience for soaking flux and hand filling the fillets. I love the idea of practicing a joint a day I need to do it.
That's definitely the smarter way to go about it! When it's just a hobby and the point is spent time, the soaking and finishing is weirdly enjoyable, I think. (I'm probably different from most in that I like tinkering with bikes more than I like riding them.) I do envy your just-ride-the-damn-thing attitude, though!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
claritycycler
Myself as well, thanks a lot for taking the time to share your process.
For sure. It's selfishly helpful, too... Knowing I'm going to have to explain things in detail is making me really stop and think about what I'm doing as I go along. Thanks for following the progress!
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Moving forward. Steps for today:
…
12. Check Frame Alignment
13. (Align Frame if Necessary)
…
I only recently purchased my little alignment table. Up until my last couple frames, I’d been relying on my fixtures and the various string/straightedge/frame-alignment-gauge methods to check alignment. The classroom at UBI housed a full-size BB-tower style alignment table; in both of my courses it served as a very heavy coffee table.
I think the attitude there is that if you use good fixturing and processes, an alignment table isn’t really necessary. I think I understand the wisdom in that. One of my favorite walk-around-town activities is one-eyed-squinting at the rear ends of production bikes that I see locked up to racks. Yikes. At least in terms of alignment, the bar isn’t set very high. And really, I don’t know enough about bikes to know whether any of it matters or not. Especially for the types of bikes that I build and ride.
So, I “align” my frames to a level that my perfectionism will accept. Which--given that I’m new to making bicycles--is a pretty loose tolerance. I’ve put a couple of my scrapped frames on my little table and felt the amount of force that it takes to move a head tube even a half-millimeter. A triangle made out of tubular steel is shockingly strong. In essence, I’ve quasi-decided that: A. if something needs mild correction, it isn’t worth me yanking the hell out of my frame to correct it; and B. if something needs major correction, I should probably just start over. So--as of right now--“aligning” my frames is really just a way to gain a little feedback as I go along. I'll nudge dropouts, but that's about it. I use the alignment process as a tool for improving the work on my next frame, not as a way to correct my current incompetencies. I hope that makes sense.
With that said, here’s what I check and how I check it. (Note: I didn’t take photos of this until after I’d finished the fillets, but I checked the frame before I started filing. Nevermind the shine for now!)
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1749/bland-v-fd-75.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1750/bland-v-fd-76.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1751/bland-v-fd-77.jpg
First, I face the BB shell with my Park Tool facer. The Paragon shells are supplied .5mm long, which I’ve found to be about perfect for the amount of distortion I get at the BB while brazing. Taking off .25mm from either side results in a full, fresh cut around the BB.
Once faced, I re-scribe the BB centerline onto the bottom of the BB, using my calipers. Then I mount the frame onto the alignment table. I use a little surface gauge/scratch/probe/thing and set it to meet the centerline. Then I compare this height to the height of the axle center.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1752/bland-v-fd-78.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1753/bland-v-fd-79.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1754/bland-v-fd-80.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1755/bland-v-fd-81.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1756/bland-v-fd-82.jpg
Next, I set my previously-mentioned Compass gauge to the height of the surface scratcher. I use this gauge to check my head tube and seat tube ends.
On the table, I found that my head tube was off-center by about 1mm, to the drive side. My axle center was off about 1mm as well (but to the other side). The head tube showed no twist, though, and the seat tube was fine. I make mental notes.
Next, I take the frame off the table and clamp it in my vise. I throw some Park H-tools into the dropouts and check for parallelism. (I’ve never had even a slight problem here, for whatever reason.) Then I place a true wheel into the dropouts. I check (using a straightedge held against the head and seat tubes) the top of the rim for center (keeping in mind that my head tube is off-center and so this reading will be skewed). I also check the distance between both chainstays and the rim. And finally I check the dropout spacing. Everything here jived with the readings on my table. If they didn’t, I’d have to figure out what was off (other than what I already know to be off).
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1757/bland-v-fd-83.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1761/bland-v-fd-85.jpg
Finally, I step back and do the fling-the-wheel and one-eyed-squint thing. Better than most bikes I see on the street, which is good by me.
I make the conclusion that the dropouts need moving 1mm each, back to center. I’m going to leave the head tube alone for now, and check it again after I tack the mixte-style stays in place. Mostly out of curiosity.
With the dummy axle in place, I give the chain stays their 1mm… nudge.
Once more on to the table and then I call it good.
If you’re curious, I did put the little sample Cleary bike up on the table, too. Let’s just say that I’m happy with how my frame compares. Or that--more likely--none of this mattered. Like, at all. Especially on this little bike.
Like I said, feedback and perfectionism appeasement.
That’s it. Next I’ll finish the main fillets and begin working on the seat stays.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Onward.
…
14. Finish Main Fillets
…
To finish my fillets, I follow the method described in these two links:
Steve Garro: Polishing Fillet Brazes
Dave Kirk: Fillet Show Bike
I start with round files, moving from larger to smaller. The largest file takes out all of my little bronze-dime edges; the medium and small smooth everything out. The smaller the file, the closer I get to the edge of the fillet, and the lighter I press. I avoid filing on the tube itself--I (try to) only file the fillet. There’s a thread in this forum where Doug Fattic describes the filing stroke itself. I’ll have to dig it up--very helpful. Basically, I work in a short, almost side-to-side pushing motion as I file.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1762/bland-v-fd-86.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1763/bland-v-fd-87.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1766/bland-v-fd-91.jpg
Next, I use a piece of vinyl hose (with a wooden dowel shoved into the center for rigidity) wrapped with 80-grit emery cloth to blend everything together. Here again, I avoid sanding on the tubes as much as I can.
To finish up, I go back over everything with my smallest round file, hitting any spots that need touching up. And finally, I use strips of 80-grit emery cloth for a final polish and to blend the edges into the tubes.
As I work through the steps, a periodic swipe with some red Scotchbrite flattens everything out and helps reveal areas that need working on. On the BB, I’ll sometimes use my Dremel equipped with a little sanding drum (the same one that I used on my dropouts, earlier) to work on the nooks where filing is almost impossible.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1768/bland-v-fd-93.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1767/bland-v-fd-92.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1764/bland-v-fd-89.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1765/bland-v-fd-90.jpg
And that’s that. I know some people dislike filing fillets. I love it. Blast the newest album and have at it. My favorite evening of any build, by far.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Good stuff...I’ve always liked making things for and with my kids. I believe that when they observe you “making/building/fixing” things; whether it’s woodwork, artwork, cooking, sewing, mechanical repairs, etc., that they will more likely not be apprehensive about exploring and trying to “make” things by themselves as well.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rwsaunders
... I believe that when they observe you “making/building/fixing” things... that they will more likely not be apprehensive about exploring and trying to “make” things by themselves as well.
That's the hope! This morning before we headed off to school, I threw a wheel into the frame and held it on the ground for my daughter to stand over. She observed that it was "Bigger than my purple bike! Because I'm growing?", which was pretty cool.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Here’s how things stand:
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1769/bland-v-fd-94.jpg
I’m calling this one 33% done. Makes sense in my head. Main frame... then seatstays, bridges, braze-ons... then fork & stem.
A couple things I’ve been meaning to mention:
1. I’ve left the seat tube long for now for two reasons. First, my jig only goes so short! And second, I’m not entirely sure what I’m doing for a binder/slot/collar on this bike yet. (Normally, I would have brazed the binder and at least drilled the pucker hole before connecting everything.)
2. I ended up going with a 68mm BB shell, 120mm rear spacing, and 16" (305 BSD) wheels. I wish I knew more about BMX parts, but I think I can make this work. Brakes are still up in the air a bit.
3. I did in fact use the aforementioned “seat stays” as chainstays. I also found a shorty 9-6-9 double-butted top tube to use as the down tube. Nice and light so far. Thanks to Jon in that Mentor thread for his advice.
My next step is the seat stays / top tubes. I’ve been pondering these (along with brake mounting, bridges, etc.) the entire time I’ve been working on this little frame. I think I’ve got a plan.
Definitely not going to finish both the Daughter and Father bikes before the New Year. That’s ok. As long as Mathilda’s is painted by mid-February. The other bike can come later.
Back soon,
Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Really enjoying this thread. I appreciate the detail and general quality of the posts. I have a daughter in the same age-group and would love the ability to do something like this, (my daughter got to pick her first bike at the shop, but this is a different level!). Looking forward to future updates/conclusion.
John
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
john swan
Really enjoying this thread. I appreciate the detail and general quality of the posts. I have a daughter in the same age-group and would love the ability to do something like this, (my daughter got to pick her first bike at the shop, but this is a different level!). Looking forward to future updates/conclusion.
John
Thanks John! If I can learn to make a little bicycle frame, anybody can--that's for certain. Someday the daughters will appreciate the efforts.
I've got a couple updates to post... Getting closer on this one. Back soon.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Phew! What a couple weeks. I had a last-minute, year-end project come up right before the holidays and--as such--set this aside. Things are back to normal now, though, so I'm stealing hours in the studio again.
Anyway, back at it:
...
15. Top tubes / Seat stays!
...
Lots of considerations for these top tubes/seat stays. Before I started this bike, I knew I wanted these tubes to be swoopy-curvy. So, I impulse-purchased a Harbor Freight tubing roller and some small-diameter dies from Swag Offroad. When I got the roller home, I ran a couple test pieces. I’d never rolled tubes before. Super fun. I’m definitely going to use this in the future, for a variety of things.
I wasn’t able to find any definitive information on how to achieve this style of mixte-esque stay, so I had to wing it a bit. I began by rolling the tubes (went with .5”) across their entire length, holding them up to the frame to check the radius as I went. I rolled little by little until I was satisfied. No drawing here, just building in space.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1818/bland-v-fd-96.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1819/bland-v-fd-97.jpg
Next, I compared the curved-to-my-liking tubes to my drawing. I determined that if I raked the ends of the tubes on my fork blade bender (using a 5” radius die), the dropout tabs would line up nicely. So, I raked the ends.
Next came the tricky part. I knew I wanted the stays to pinch in towards the seat tube (for little-kid-inner-thigh clearance), as opposed to running in straight (wide) lines from dropouts to head tube. But, I was unsure how to put that kink/bend in the middle of (and opposed to) my long, swoopy bend. In addition, I thought it would be nice if the seat stay portions of these tubes were “twisted” inward a bit (for brake stud spacing and aesthetics purposes). I thought about just putting a slit on the outside of the stays and nudging everything inward, but in the end decided to split the long tubes entirely in half and miter the four different sections individually. (My fall-back plan was to just throw a single top tube in the frame, and side-tack the seat stays.)
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1820/bland-v-fd-98.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1821/bland-v-fd-99.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/182...d-v-fd-100.jpg
Once split, I tabbed, slotted, and mitered everything up. As I normally do with seat stays, I started with the dropout tabs, then slotted the seat stays (using my drawing, just like the chain stays). Then I mitered the seat tube ends of the seat stays. Finally, I mitered the two little top tubes. All of these miters were done the same way as the chainstays-to-BB miters, using BikeCAD’s paper templates.
This all took two full evenings. Definitely the trickiest mitering I’ve done.
Once mitered, I was left with (anticipated) little half-butt joints on either side of the seat tube. I’m guessing this could be addressed differently on a welded frame, but I decided that--since I was brazing this all together--I’d use an internal splice to connect everything back together and avoid having two tube ends running right into one another. I’ve spliced the ends of rack decks together like this, but I had/have no idea if this is a kosher way of doing this here (so certainly don’t copy me!). The end result, though, is essentially a solid-ish plug of steel and bronze, about an inch long, right at the side of the seat tube. (These spots are also going to get little reinforcement bridges/plates ala Retrotec in my next installment.) If I’m an idiot and should not have done this, feel free to tell me so.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/182...d-v-fd-101.jpg
Speaking of, if there’s a better way to execute--in general--these types of top tube/seat stays, I’d love to know what it is! It seems achieving multiple bends in a single plane (?) is pretty simple… But putting multiple bends in two different planes is tricky. I’ll give this some additional thought for the Father version of this frame…
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/182...d-v-fd-102.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/182...d-v-fd-103.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/182...d-v-fd-104.jpg
Anyway, I next drilled vent holes at the "tops" and "bottoms" of each of the four tubes. Cleaned everything up and tacked everything together, in the jig. At UBI, we tacked seat stays in place out of the jig. However, I’ve found that--as long as the frame goes back in the jig easily--the “universal tube holder” that my Anvil came with is really helpful for holding seatstays in place for tacking. Once tacked, I removed the frame from the jig and brazed all six joints in my Park stand. Same tips and fillers and methods described previously. Once brazed, I let everything cool, soaked off the flux, and finished all of the joints. Again, all as described previously. A quick check on the alignment table told me that everything stayed put, for better or worse.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/182...d-v-fd-105.jpg
Bridges, reinforcements, and braze-ons next. Fork after that. Need to move quickly now… Might even take a day off of work-work to get the fork built. In any case, back soon!
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
newbe here.
Beautiful work. Learned a bunch from it. Did you put the pin on seat stay so gravity wouldn't,t do its thing with the piece of metal inside the tube?
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paul van der Zwaard
newbe here.
Beautiful work. Learned a bunch from it. Did you put the pin on seat stay so gravity wouldn't,t do its thing with the piece of metal inside the tube?
Yes, that is why I put the pin in there. I've done that previously with rack deck splices, and applied it here. That said, don't assume I know what I'm doing! This seemed like a low-risk situation for that whole seat stay experiment, but I'm not sure I'd do it this way again. In any case, glad you're enjoying the thread.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
A pin is a nice and easy solution to gravity or a lack of clamps. Andy
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew R Stewart
A pin is a nice and easy solution to gravity or a lack of clamps. Andy
I really like my high-temperature (alnico?) magnets, too, when nothing else will do.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
What a brilliant thread. Thanks for sharing this!
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
All right, moving on. For today:
…
16. "Bridges"
…
I've only ever made bridges out of round tubing, but I thought I’d try something different on this little bike. I like the look of the plate reinforcements I’ve seen on a few different mixte-style bikes. So, I decided to ditch regular, round bridges all together and purchased some 4130 sheet steel from Aircraft Spruce.
I started with poster board (actually, this was a manilla folder that was within arm’s reach). I traced and trimmed until I had the pieces and shapes that I was satisfied with. Then I transferred the shapes on to the steel and cut them out with a cutting wheel, cleaning them up with files and checking that they fit well.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/183...d-v-fd-106.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/183...d-v-fd-107.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/183...d-v-fd-108.jpg
Next, I (blue) fluxed and (bronze) brazed the plates in place. I tried to be mindful about the already-finished fillets around the seat stays/top tubes. I think I’ve read, here, that remelting bronze--already on a frame--takes a little more heat than initially melting it. That matches my experience in this instance. (Also, note the little makeshift magnet-slash-clamp-slash-vise-grip fixture. Much to my surprise this worked pretty-ok, unlike some of my previous slapped-together holding techniques.)
Once all of my little plates were brazed in, I soaked and cleaned them up in the usual fashion. I also added a little bridge between the top tubes, about halfway between head tube and seat tube.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/183...d-v-fd-109.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/183...d-v-fd-110.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/183...d-v-fd-111.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/183...d-v-fd-112.jpg
Overall, while I do like how these look, they definitely give the little frame a wicked/sharp/brutal personality. I'm not sure they compliment the curves of the stays as well as I'd thought they would. They certainly don't scream "Pink Giraffe". Oh well... It was something new to try. Mathilda thought they were neat when I shared my progress, so that makes me feel good. (And yah, about that one asymmetrical plate... I have a plan for that down the road.)
Next up are some head tube reinforcement rings and a seat tube collar. Then it’s on to the fork.
Back soon,
Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
For today:
…
17. Make and braze on head tube reinforcement rings
18. Make and braze on seat tube collar/binder
19. Slot seat tube
…
I was planning on using a cast seat tube collar on this frame. When I went digging for the one I thought I had on hand, however, I discovered that it was the wrong size. So, I decided to make my own out of a Paragon binder and some .058” tubing (to slip fit the seat tube).
I began by mitering the binder to fit the tubing. Then I put a small slot on the opposing side of the binder. I need to figure out a better way to fixture these while brazing, but a slot and one of my usually-used-for-cable-stops Sputnik clamps works ok. Then I (bronze) brazed the binder to the tube.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-114.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-115.jpg
Next, I soaked, cut, and cleaned up the binder, squaring off the top and bottom on my belt sander. I also drilled the binder and seat tube for a pin. The pin will help me keep the collar straight while brazing. This was just done by eye.
Once the collar was made, I set in on cutting a couple of head tube rings (also out of .058” tubing, to slip fit the head tube). I’m using a regular 1mm-walled head tube on this bike, meant for use with lugs (as I understand). As such, I need reinforcement rings on the ends so that reaming the head tube doesn’t leave the walls too thin and prone to cracking around the press-fit headset. To make these, I first squared up the end of the .058” tube on the belt sander. Then I hacksawed the ring to length, and repeated for the second one. When I go to braze these on, I’ll make sure the square sides of the rings face “in”. The less-than-square hacksawed edge will get squared up when I face the top and bottom of the head tube.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-116.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-117.jpg
Next I cleaned up the rings, collar, seat tube, and head tube with 80-grit and isopropyl. Then I fluxed all the bits, clamped the frame in my Park stand, and silver (56%) brazed them to the frame. (More about the silver brazing once I get to the fork...) Once cool, I soaked off the flux and cleaned everything up. Small files and emery, once again. Finally, I machined the head tube with my Park head tube reamer/facer.
I should mention that I’d love to learn how to use a lathe, if only for little bits like this. I’d like to be able to make these types of things more unique… tapered, perhaps... or something. For now, however, simple, chunky little rings and collars are what I can do. Maybe down the road.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-118.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-119.jpg
Lastly, I slotted the seat tube. I enjoy every part of making a bicycle frame, except for this part. Even in my short time of doing this, I’ve learned to despise this task! On my most recent (adult) bikes, I’ve drilled the little pucker hole as part of making the seat tube sub-assembly. Even still, I never manage to get it exactly centered. In this instance, the hole--again--ended up a touch off center. Cursing to myself, I cut the slot with my Dremel cutting wheel (I usually use a hacksaw but didn’t have access on this little frame, which was anticipated) and then set in on getting it cleaned up with progressively-larger slotting files. When I was done, it just looked… off. Per usual. So, I “fixed” it as I’ve done a couple times before: by brazing on a “reinforcement” washer around the hole, and making sure it was good-and-center. Call it a feature.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-120.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-121.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/184...d-v-fd-122.jpg
That’s it for braze-ons at the moment. I’m still undecided about brakes on this bike. So, after I finish the fork I’ll need to add either brake studs or a plate for a coaster hub. And of course there’s the headbadge. But that always happens last. No matter what.
Here’s where we stand:
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/185...d-v-fd-123.jpg
Fork tomorrow.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
I built my daughter a bicycle. The first of many, I hope.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1856/bland-v-7598.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/1855/bland-v-7597.jpg
(Sorry for jumping ahead. Retroactive fork, brake, and stem posts coming soon.)
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
^^ That last photo is the shit! Perfect way to depict the end of the build.
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ras72
^^ That last photo is the shit! Perfect way to depict the end of the build.
Glad you like that one! It felt appropriate, for the build and for the day.
-Chris
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Re: A Father-Daughter Build Thread
Moving on to the fork. I built this last week; sorry for the delay in posting photos!
Fork steps:
1. Fit and braze steerer to crown
2. Shape crown, if desired
…
I begin by fitting and brazing the steerer tube to the crown. The crowns I’ve worked with are nicely machined post-cast; to this point, they haven’t required much fiddling to fit nicely around the steerer. (I was taught that the steerer-crown interface should have no play, but should be loose enough to allow the crown to slide down the steerer under gravity.) In this case, I merely cleaned up the outside of the steerer and the inside of the crown with 80-grit emery. (I was also taught to orient the emery "scratch marks" in the direction one wants the silver to flow while brazing. So, I do that with everything I silver braze, as shown here.)
Once cleaned up, I drill a hole for a pin that will hold the crown to the steerer while brazing. I use regular hardware store nails for the pinning, tapering them slightly on my belt sander so that they fit tightly when I tap them into the assembly-to-be-brazed. Also worth noting is that I allow just a small lip of the steerer to protrude past the bottom of the crown. When I go to braze, I’ll do so “upside down”. Having a little lip there allows easier feeding of the silver filler.
Finally, I drill vent holes if appropriate. This crown is hollow in the shoulders. I vent fork blades top and bottom, so these holes will allow the blades to be vented directly through the steerer. Some crowns I’ve used don’t allow this; those forks’ blades just get a simple hole, somewhere up near the crown.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/185...d-v-fd-124.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/185...d-v-fd-125.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/185...d-v-fd-126.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/186...d-v-fd-127.jpg
Once everything is ready, I clean with isopropyl, flux the steerer/crown/pin, assemble, and then apply more flux. Ready to braze.
Because silver brazing requires lower temperatures than bronze brazing, I--previously--associated silver brazing with smaller torch tips and smaller flames. Made sense, I thought. I have since found (and read, here, many times over), however, that using a larger tip and a bigger, broader flame is actually more appropriate for lugged joints. The temperature control--as I’m now starting to grasp--is handled by the movements of the user, not the size of the flame. As such, I now braze these joints with my largest torch tip, a Smith 207 (and 56% silver filler).
As mentioned, I braze this joint upside down. I also braze it out of any jig. Hence the pin. At UBI, we were taught to braze the steerer and blades to the crown in one shot. Even the slightest imperfection in the fit up of all those (four) parts, however, can result in the steerer/crown being under (even a tiny bit of) tension. I've found that this little bit of tension can make brazing this joint, in particular, difficult. So, I now braze lugged forks in two steps. Attaching the steerer to the crown first also makes carving/cleaning up the crown easier. It’s an extra heat cycle, yes, but it’s a tradeoff I know some well-respected builders make. Good enough for me.
I fire up the torch. I use a big, rumbling, 2-3x reducing flame. I preheat the entire circumference of the steerer. I feed silver into the “lip”, and draw it through to the race seat. Finally, I don’t skimp on filler. I make sure these silver-brazed joints are good and full. Eventually I’ll get the hang of how much silver fills a given joint; for now I just overshoot the hell out of it. “Shorelines”--or whatever--be damned.
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/186...d-v-fd-128.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/186...d-v-fd-129.jpg
http://theblandbicycle.com/media/186...d-v-fd-130.jpg
Once brazed, I allow the assembly to cool completely. Then I soak off the flux, trim the pin, and shape the crown. In this case, I simply rounded off the sharp corners and also removed the brake mount... things (nubs? faces?). I thought this would look nice with the dropout treatment and swoopy curves of the frame. Finally, I touch up the blade sockets’ edges with a file. (I don’t bother with all the casting marks just yet; I’ll take care of those after the fork is done.)
That’s it for now. Blades next!
-Chris