We have officially become inured to mass shootings.

That there is not a discussion about the recent mass shootings on this list, as it is populated by articulate folks who are concerned with such things, tells me that as a society we have become inured. I guess that doing nothing after the massacre of children in Sandy Hook should have made that clear. And this isn't my invitation for such discussion, I know what I'd do if I were running things, but merely that the lack of it suggests something terrible about our national psyche and our evolving, new normal.

Hopefully I'll be proven wrong by a tidal wave of the electorate but aside from eyewash, hand wringing and maybe the lone, impotent regulation, I don't think so.

Thanks for this John. I'm taking quite a few more deep breaths today.

If history is a guide... It's going to get worse before it gets better.

Anomie: Definition, Theory & Examples - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

This is what I wrote on my Facebook page.

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Did you ever wonder if shit was so bad for these shooters that maybe just maybe for once they'd point the weapon at themselves rather than others. Now that would take some balls.

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It's gonna take a monumental Howard Beale moment from all of us with a sense of decency to turn this around. Being incensed is only the start.

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That's where I'm at with this. So many since (and before) Columbine. I'm near desensitized. I've lost my ability to care about the catalyst, or what's inside the shooter's head. After all these executions I'd rather read about these cats aiming at themselves, if I have to read anything at all.

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I've written a lot more. But you get the gist.

We have our very own home-grown radicalized terrorists...I don’t see them as any different than the suicide bombers who plague Afghanistan, making the news with their devastating death counts.

We’re fucked for the next couple decades at least.

Well the Republicans in Nebraska are doubling down on it.

Nebraska GOP Tells State Senator To Leave Party After He Condemns White Supremacy

Oh yes they are:

Opinion | Trump, Tax Cuts and Terrorism - The New York Times

Panic in Times Square as motorcycle backfire sends crowds running | Daily Mail Online

Seems like people more nervous than anything.

Maybe we get lucky here and the corruption at the NRA is its undoing and serious gun control debate can begin.

NRA discussed purchasing luxury mansion for its chief executive to use, documents show
The origins of the idea to buy the mansion, its proposed purpose and the reason the deal never went through are being fiercely disputed by the NRA and its longtime ad firm, Ackerman McQueen.

--why are you suprised...
a farm boy having enjoyable college life and then graduation and commissioned an officer..
ranger training, paddies of rice to take life under the mask of saving my country and our democarcy..
years fucked up mentally following -- so easy to justify aggresion and taking life..

so why are we suprised when lack of love and respect from home, right within one's self, a cause that assists mankind and others is not there..
our elected leaders are immune to looking at their hands and seeing blood..

this is just the beginning and we wonder why...

The El Paso Screed, and the Racist Doctrine Behind It - The New York Times

Why are we as a society immune to these horrific events? Repetition, along with a diminished trust in near everything...

About the same number of people were murdered in Chicago last weekend as Dayton. It would have been higher but the 5 year old boy that got shot in the leg will live. Where is the outrage & calls for action ??

The repetition, the selective outrage, the placement of a ‘blame’, the empty words, the even more empty calls for ‘action’...........but mostly the fact that no one will care in two weeks and it will be all forgotten.

Link Found Between Gun Violence and Cowardly Politicians | The New Yorker

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Why are we as a society immune to these horrific events? Repetition, along with a diminished trust in near everything...

About the same number of people were murdered in Chicago last weekend as Dayton. It would have been higher but the 5 year old boy that got shot in the leg will live. Where is the outrage & calls for action ??

The repetition, the selective outrage, the placement of a ‘blame’, the empty words, the even more empty calls for ‘action’...........but mostly the fact that no one will care in two weeks and it will be all forgotten.

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Perhaps the rage fatigue at the futility of expecting change while the gun manufacturers and the NRA have the GOP on retainer? This is the only nation on earth where there is nearly unlimited access to firearms, and surprise(!), they are used to kill people every day.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Why are we as a society immune to these horrific events? Repetition, along with a diminished trust in near everything...

About the same number of people were murdered in Chicago last weekend as Dayton. It would have been higher but the 5 year old boy that got shot in the leg will live. Where is the outrage & calls for action ??

The repetition, the selective outrage, the placement of a ‘blame’, the empty words, the even more empty calls for ‘action’...........but mostly the fact that no one will care in two weeks and it will be all forgotten.

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Damned if you do, damned if you don't, eh?

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Why are we as a society immune to these horrific events? Repetition, along with a diminished trust in near everything...

About the same number of people were murdered in Chicago last weekend as Dayton. It would have been higher but the 5 year old boy that got shot in the leg will live. Where is the outrage & calls for action ??

The repetition, the selective outrage, the placement of a ‘blame’, the empty words, the even more empty calls for ‘action’...........but mostly the fact that no one will care in two weeks and it will be all forgotten.

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This is why I am increasingly reluctant participate in these on-line discussions. If there was ever a case where the "what about X?" argument doesn't apply it's this one. A terrorist shooting randomly into a crowd. A gang member who can't aim killing an innocent. It's the same thing: It is gun violence and we need to keep guns out of the hands of people who will use them to murder. (Or even to kill themselves.)

Ranting about it on the Internet is useless. Have any of you ever convinced someone to change their mind this way?

Call your elected officials and, if they don't care to deal with this horror show of indifference, work to replace your elected officials with one who will. Give your time, give your money, give passion.

DavidS votes so should we all d@mnit.

What's anyone gonna say that hasn't already been said again and again and again?

DavidS is right. If you want to see change, typing about it on a bike forum is a waste of time - go do something in the real world.

Not much to say either except to point out that if these terrorists (which is what they are) weren’t white men there would be much louder calls for action on guns. Talk about privilege.......

I couldn’t agree with Davids point more. It’s the same exact thing.

I posted to answer the OP, that our society will soon ignore & dismiss these mass shootings as easily as we now dismiss & ignore weekends in Chicago. It’s the same mechanism at play. Don’t confuse my point as ‘what about x’.

It’s the same mechanism that now allows us to walk past/over/around homeless people without a second thought.

Tuesday November 3, 2020 we can do something about this. Be there or accept the status quo.

Because the debate was settled in 2012.

If a literal pile of dead first graders doesn't overcome money and influence in the national political will, nothing can. It's a pointless discussion, whether it's street violence in Chicago or domestic terrorism from white supremacists. We know what the answers are and the solutions are pretty straightforward -- the rest of the industrialized world seems to have come around to it -- but in lieu of political will to do it we have thoughts and prayers to keep us warm at night.

The only mildly new angle here, and it ain't that new, is the rise in white supremacists taking out their rage on minority communities. Charlie Pierce said it best yesterday in a column, the days of lynch mobs are over, because the lone shooter is his own lynch mob. Easier to fire into a crowd you don't like than throw a rope over a tree.

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Originally Posted by guido

Tuesday November 3, 2020 we can do something about this. Be there or accept the status quo.

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Vote your conscience in every election, not just the presidential elections.

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Originally Posted by Saab2000

Not much to say either except to point out that if these terrorists (which is what they are) weren’t white men there would be much louder calls for action on guns. Talk about privilege.......

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This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.

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Originally Posted by Saab2000

Vote your conscience in every election, not just the presidential elections.

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We have house, senate and presidential seats that need changing to resolve this problem.

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Originally Posted by David Tollefson

This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.

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Interesting counterpoint. Thanks. I did a quick glance and it is an interesting piece.

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Originally Posted by David Tollefson

This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.

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More to this point and your link, everything we read or consume in terms of information is slanted or selective or incomplete or out of context. Recent examples of this include news in the media about the 737-MAXx series of airplanes. This is a subject where (I think) both of us have more knowledge than the general public and even our knowledge is incomplete. But we read stories in the news about it that are clearly written by non-experts as if they were fact. Because reading technical documents or full accident reports is mind numbingly dull work. Everyone here has an area of knowledge in something that is probably poorly represented in the mainstream media we see all around us.

So your point is taken. Thanks for the link. It is worthy of a look but even there things are not fully reported. Like all printed or spoken reported words, it is fallible.

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Originally Posted by Saab2000

More to this point and your link, everything we read or consume in terms of information is slanted or selective or incomplete or out of context. Recent examples of this include news in the media about the 737-MAXx series of airplanes. This is a subject where (I think) both of us have more knowledge than the general public and even our knowledge is incomplete. But we read stories in the news about it that are clearly written by non-experts as if they were fact. Because reading technical documents or full accident reports is mind numbingly dull work. Everyone here has an area of knowledge in something that is probably poorly represented in the mainstream media we see all around us.

So your point is taken. Thanks for the link. It is worthy of a look but even there things are not fully reported. Like all printed or spoken reported words, it is fallible.

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Well said.

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Originally Posted by David Tollefson

This is simply blatantly false. The FBI statistics don't lie. Here's a little piece. You don't even hear about most of them. And when you do, the press quickly covers up the race of the shooter if it isn't white.

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Alcohol, drugs, DV, argument gone bad, gang violence, gambling, robbery... a lot of these tend to be black on black violence which often gets quickly ignored in the national press. Just focusing on the mass shootings which are more random in cause, really understates the size of the problem. But the sad reality is there are just too many shootings nationally to cover at the national level, and it all just becomes a local event.

If anything, your article just shows how inured to gun violence the nation has become. Our president , who tweets about the knife violence here in the UK, but this just pales compared to how much more efficient the gun is in killing people in the US.

Open it up for research, and I think we can find some real answers, causes, and solutions. Until then the argument is moot really, with out actual research, it's just a bunch of biased slanted discussions, about what I think, and what you think, and people that don't really understand the data, making sweeping allegations.

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Originally Posted by vertical_doug

If anything, your article just shows how inured to gun violence the nation has become. Our president , who tweets about the knife violence here in the UK, but this just pales compared to how much more efficient the gun is in killing people in the US.

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Are acid attacks still a thing here in the UK?

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Originally Posted by vvv321

Open it up for research, and I think we can find some real answers, causes, and solutions. Until then the argument is moot really, with out actual research, it's just a bunch of biased slanted discussions, about what I think, and what you think, and people that don't really understand the data, making sweeping allegations.

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What would make you think this new research you speak of would be more valid than the research Dave linked too?

These discussions based on experience & one’s own logic are valuable. Invaluable.

Dave’s link addressed a very specific point and it addressed it very well. Generally I don’t think there is much value when these discussions devolve into an online ‘link battle’.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

What would make you think this new research you speak of would be more valid than the research Dave linked too?



Dave’s link addressed a very specific point and it addressed it very well. Generally I don’t think there is much value when these discussions devolve into an online ‘link battle’.

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Please let me know why you think that we shouldn't do research on the subject? Dave's link is a single small data point, that can be slanted multiple ways, actual research requires much more. This is EXACTLY why legitimate research needs to be done. I get the feeling you think it says one thing, which you agree with, and you believe supports your world view. If you are so confident that is true, please call your representatives and demand they allow research be done on this subject, so you can have even more ammo.

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These discussions based on experience & one’s own logic are valuable. Invaluable.

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I think we know where everyone stands on this subject. It's been discussed to death. There are really only two camps. Less talk more action is required and research is the first step in understanding.


Finally I think it's hilarious that a society that has reaped so much good from research, including the internet, is so willing to deny it when it comes to certain subjects, and all the sudden it's not valid, and we shouldn't do it.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

What would make you think this new research you speak of would be more valid than the research Dave linked too?

These discussions based on experience & one’s own logic are valuable. Invaluable.

Dave’s link addressed a very specific point and it addressed it very well. Generally I don’t think there is much value when these discussions devolve into an online ‘link battle’.

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This nation's preeminent public health research organization can't perform any research on gun violence, thanks to the NRA (the Dickey amendment). Let's change that obscene situation to start.

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Originally Posted by vvv321

Please let me know why you think that we shouldn't do research on the subject? Dave's link is a single small data point, that can be slanted multiple ways, actual research requires much more. This is EXACTLY why legitimate research needs to be done. I get the feeling you think it says one thing, which you agree with, and you believe supports your world view. If you are so confident that is true, please call your representatives and demand they allow research be done on this subject, so you can have even more ammo.

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Based on your response, my post may not have been clear. I’m very skeptical of all links to research. Especially when I have no idea who funded the research, the methods & goals involved. I believe most good folks end their due diligence on a topic when they find a link they agree with. Dave’s link seemed valid & addressed a very, very specific point. But I don’t think his link & others shouldn’t be open to challenge. And more to my point, these interesting discussions should not become a big link-hunt, where we all just search for & post links that agree with our own opinions.

I absolutely never said we shouldn’t perform research on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Based on your response, my post may not have been clear. I’m very skeptical of all links to research. Especially when I have no idea who funded the research, the methods & goals involved. I believe most good folks end their due diligence on a topic when they find a link they agree with. Dave’s link seemed valid & addressed a very, very specific point. But I don’t think his link & others shouldn’t be open to challenge. And more to my point, these interesting discussions should not become a big link-hunt, where we all just search for & post links that agree with our own opinions.

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Right, This is exactly why legitimate research addresses all of these concerns. Sigh. Actual research must reveal their funding sources, methods and goals, how do people not know this? Frankly I think the government should fund this, and frankly does fund most legit research, again how do you think you got the internet?

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I absolutely never said we shouldn’t perform research on the subject.

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Then do something, and let your will be known to your representatives! put your money where your mouth is.

Furthermore legitimate research is vetted through peer review.

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Originally Posted by vvv321

Right, This is exactly why legitimate research addresses all of these concerns. Sigh. Actual research must reveal their funding sources, methods and goals, how do people not know this?
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Just an honest question. How many people do you believe check the funding sources of research before posting a link to it in a discussion like this one? How many folks reading the discussion verify the methods and funding of research before treating as gospel fact?

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Just an honest question. How many people do you believe check the funding sources of research before posting a link to it in a discussion like this one?

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Legitimate research isn't being done on Internet forums.... Answer, I think that the gen pop just posts crap, true or not, that supports their world view, just like you have. This is EXACTLY why we have professionals that have dedicated their entire life to research, and those are the people we have tied the hands of in this crisis, the only people with the tools to even start to truly understand the issue. This isn't going to be solved on internet forums, and until we unleash the power of the people that have again, spent their entire lives doing legit, peer reviewed research, we will not have any answers, and it will just devolve in to this. People screaming about this vs that, posting crap and interpreting it the way they see fit.

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Originally Posted by Dallas Tex

Just an honest question. How many people do you believe check the funding sources of research before posting a link to it in a discussion like this one? How many folks reading the discussion verify the methods and funding of research before treating as gospel fact?

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I'd settle for some CDC research for starters. But what they were finding in the 1990s didn't bode well for the gun lobby.

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